A College Dropout Turns Into A Business Success Story w/ Tyler Turner

spk_1:   0:06
from the land of mystery with dreams become reality Always listening to stories from the past, the present and the future. This is back, guys, Thank you so much for tuning in. And I'd like to share with you guys a little sponsor. Ah, The 1st 1 for the podcast is called Jupiter. They make the highest quality CBD I have ever taken. They really focus on alleviating stress. And for me, I deal with stress on a massive level. Every single day, I feel like I'm in explode. By the end of it, I take a little bit of this stuff and it just melts it away. And, you know, this stuff is fucking awesome. One reason is because they're USD organic. Second reason is single strain origin. Third, they only use the flower 4th 3 step testing process. The list could go on, But what they're doing for you guys is they're doing the Jupiter journey to two weeks sample to really try the product. And it's late. 19 bucks. Yep, 19 Dallas. After that, you can use my code after second purchase and get 10 bucks off. So used the code story time. I'll put all the information in the notes, but go to get jupiter dot com. Try today. Oh, man, that was good. So who do I have on today? Well, I got the wizard himself, The man behind Jupiter. Well, 1/2 of the man behind Jupiter is Mr Tyler Turner is my best friend. My brother talk about so many amazing things, and I'm pretty sure you guys gonna get a kick out of this. He's one of the most brilliant guys I know most. Driven, most passionate dudes on the face of the planet and look up to him. He's a big brother to me. All right, guys, let's get to it. All right, all right. All right. So, Brock, I'm

spk_0:   2:05
not saying that it's a simulation. Yes, but I'm also not not saying that. What we need to consider is that what we call reality is actually just a projection of the subconscious. Okay? From interdimensional aliens trying to mind control,

spk_1:   2:17
you know, at the end, as a waiter, it but it's it's it's really a fact. And I just studied right there. I'm really thinking about these things. I do appreciate that. You listen to my podcast and kind of gave me some good criticism because one thing about you that have always respected is that you're going to say it, how it ISS when most people will bullshit to your face. At the end of the day, I know I can come to you and you will tell me how it is.

spk_0:   2:45
So some people would say that that's maybe an asshole. It's the nicest thing that you could

spk_1:   2:50
do. Of course, I definitely agree with that, Uh, but when people call you an asshole, you're just a truth teller. You don't have a bone in your body where you can lie to a person's face about something big. I don't I don't know. It's just one thing I've respected about

spk_0:   3:07
you. If it's if I think that if I light because there's different types of lying, yes, if it's a lie, that is a disservice to them. That's going to cause them to continue to do something that I don't necessarily. If they're asking for an opinion, an opinion is almost like an opportunity to be completely honest. Yeah, so it's true. Robert has a fun thing that he says, which is how do you like your information?

spk_1:   3:31
Yes, yes, but it's true. How do you like your information now? Is this something that ever since you were a kid was ingrained into you by your parents? No. I think it's

spk_0:   3:40
something that I learned firsthand because so many people throughout life has not been that way with me, for instance, I'm trying to do things. It's like the most valuable thing ever when someone can be honest with you for sure. And so I'll say, when I went through this tech incubator called the Founder Institute, Um, there was a guy that ran that who was again. Everybody was like that guy's an asshole, but he was so blatantly honest that it wasn't like it wasn't like You're trying to hurt my feelings. It's like you're actually trying to help me by being incredibly honest, but I probably picked it up from him that's named Dale Re See,

spk_1:   4:18
There we go. So I do respect that because 2020 for me is kind of a couple things but two things that are my biggest pet peeves that I do like to talk about a lot one bullshitting do passiveness. People that tend to bullshit I don't like it. And I That means I don't like myself because for the longest time I was a bullshitter, I would just say things off the top, my head, no rhyme or reason. And it's something now that I'm really thinking about. So when I say something, I want facts behind it. And if I don't know it, I'm gonna say that I don't know it on. And then number two people being passive. Just say it how it is. It's like that old, uh, you know kind of saying, If you have roommates and they do something wrong and you just let it fester, well, it's just bullshit. You

spk_0:   5:07
know, there's something to be said for the environment because, for example, if you are trying to build a company, no bullshitting and no passiveness, it's poison Penis. But if you're trying to live with a roommate, sometimes the bull shitting in the past criminal passiveness. But the bullshitting can actually be it. As long as it's being done, you know effectively, it can actually be something that keeps the environment. Chill is truly, truly fast. Growing companies are not exactly chill environments, and everyone needs to have a little bit thick skins. You can communicate a little harshly to get things across quickly, but that's not always best for likes a roommate,

spk_1:   5:41
for sure, and through your experience, doing all the different types of jobs. And we'll get into that. But working at bigger fricking cos. Was that something that, you know, you kind of learned throughout the years, having that thick skin? Or has it been since high school?

spk_0:   5:56
Uh mmm. Most of my positive what I will call mental or emotional traits come from my mom. So I think that some of it is like genetic, like it's baked in there. Some of it has learned through observation. And then I also think that a lot of it comes from some of my deeper belief systems, like, say, the stoicism thing. Like when bad things happen, it's not actually a bad thing. Um, there's just something that you have to accept. Yes, So, uh, I don't think I've always been that way. I would say it was actually through a series of failures. I developed most of the ways that I am today.

spk_1:   6:39
There we go. I love that. You know, a lot of people, even me, included throughout my life, I've had, you know, many, many failures. And for the longest time, I would just let it hold me down. And now, at 33 years old, I look back at these failures and I go, OK, what did I do wrong? How can I grow from it and what is kind of the next step? And, you know, for a CZ long as I've known you, I've seen this progression up and down, up and down. And then there came this point in your life where things just really started to take off. But that's because, you know the decade's work that you put into it. So I just kind of want to bring this all around, you know, Tyler turning. You are by far one of my best friends. You are my brother. I respect the shit out of you because like we're just hearing you say it how it is. And I know that if I come to you, you're gonna tell me how it is. Also, if I'm in some world of shit and I need help, you're the first person I'm gonna call. So, uh, Tyler Turner? Where the heck did he originated from. Where did it all? ST Joseph, Missouri. There we go. ST. Joseph, Missouri. Really? Yeah. Damn family still out there?

spk_0:   7:44
Ah, yeah. There is Still family there. Okay, unfortunate. Don't get to see them very often. Um, but it's extended family. So? So the beginning. ST. Joseph, Missouri. Uh, parents were 17 and 18 years old when they had me. Check this out. I have an older brother

spk_1:   8:02
s o crazy

spk_0:   8:03
16. 17 where they have him. And then they're like, We have no idea what we're doing. Let's have another kid.

spk_1:   8:09
Are you serious? I don't think it was Clinton is 17. 18. Could you even imagine being? No, Not at all. I'm Lincoln. Barely. I can't have a

spk_0:   8:17
dog for the reason

spk_1:   8:18
that I shouldn't have a kid, so I can't imagine I'm 33 I can't. I mean, I'm starting to imagine having a kid with the lisp room together for 16 years, but your parents, I just can't even fathom being that young and then being able to pull it off. So it's 17. 18. They had a kid that was in ST Joseph, Missouri. Is that where you grew up?

spk_0:   8:42
That was until third of third grade, and then we moved up to Omaha. Um, but I got to say, Yeah, you know, at 18 a CZ, much as I can remember, your brain's not even fully formed. No, you do not know what you're doing. Your decision making is trash. Yes, you don't have the experience. And you also don't have a fully big brain to figure things out. So how the hell they figured things out? I do not know. Um, but, man, I get my work ethic from my dad, that's for sure. Um, but yes. Oh, he I mean, to the best of my recollection, he just grind it hard to get us out of that situation. Because the house that we were living in was Ah, I think it had total three or four rooms in the entire house I recently founded on Redfin. Okay. Sold for, like, $25,000.

spk_1:   9:32
Are you serious? Serious? 25,000 Court Street. If you get the house neighbor. So

spk_0:   9:38
come on. I was gonna post it on social media Shit Redfin and everything like that. Most recent price. Would you like 2015 or some, uh, that gives you an indication of the vibe of the neighborhood. Everything either before or after we moved out. There was a drive by shooting where a couple of houses got shot up on dash. And so we moved. Not too long after that. Are not too long before that. I don't remember which one. Um, but then we headed up Thio Omaha because my dad was working out of door factory hourly door factory, Just like indoors.

spk_1:   10:11
Yeah, door factory. And at what age was he when you guys moved to Nebraska? If you can kind of recollect probably early twenties. That's freaking crazy. Man in his early twenties has two kids, a wife working his ass off here and then takes you guys up to Omaha, Nebraska.

spk_0:   10:30
Yeah, my mom was baby sitting. Uh, in my early childhood, I remember always having friends around like kid friends that were, like, my age. And they were all kids that my mom was baby sitting for internal. Yeah, So there was that. My dad was at the old factory. My dad, also his office at the house was the closet where he was studying for real estate. No way he got his license and everything. And

spk_1:   10:55
impressive man. I remember having a closet growing up on my sister with living There was kind of, like an extended closet, and my parents were like, Oh, yeah, This is perfect for a bedroom. Um, yeah. They were just trying to figure shit out at that time. But you get to Omaha, Nebraska. What? You're in fourth grade. They're good. Your third grade. Do you remember that? I

spk_0:   11:16
have some memories. I wonder sometimes how good other people's memories are compared to mine. I'm a I'm a future orientated person, right? Okay, so I spend very little time thinking about the past or the present, for that matter. It's almost always What am I gonna do? What's next? Type thinking? Yes. I think that screws with my memory.

spk_1:   11:35
I wouldn't doubt it, but just the human brain, Um, as a whole, we do not remember a lot of shit.

spk_0:   11:44
Remember it off, Fuzzy?

spk_1:   11:45
Exactly. It's it's always fuzzy. And, you know, I hear my sister trying to bring up stories from the past, and it's like, No, that was not hard. Fuck, no. And I'm sure I do the same thing, but definitely her. She's Yeah. You know, my sister bless her heart. So you guys get to number. Ask AIDS. You and your brother, your mom and your dad. What kind of what was it like growing up in Nebraska?

spk_0:   12:06
Well, early on, um, again, I don't remember Thanh. I mean, I played baseball. My dad was usually my coach. You know, there's a lot of benefits of having ah, young mom and dad and one is that your dad's your baseball coach? Sure. So I remember a lot of time I spent training with him, playing on the teams. May I consumed a big part of my childhood was baseball. Yeah. Wow. The whole idea for the longest time was to be a professional baseball player, OK? And I ran with that a long ways into high school. Teacher. No idea, huh? Yeah, that was That was a focus. So maybe I get a lot of the competitiveness that I have. Her share comes from from the years and years of baseball. But honestly, I don't do anything else know. Karate or taekwondo are no drugs. No partying and drugs in the party. No, nothing. It was baseball.

spk_1:   12:51
Just hyper focus on baseball positions. You play picture. I could see that.

spk_0:   12:55
I'll split catcher and I also played third base.

spk_1:   12:57
All right, all right. So averaging was the funnest. That was the most fun, for sure. I play. I played up until eighth grade, and that's messed up our seventh grade. Whatever the heck it was, then I started skateboarding. Then that took over everything and drugs, and we eat all that shit bubble block. Almost funny

spk_0:   13:11
is that on the team in high schools were jumping forward to high school. There was a big you know, I'm sure. Fuzziness between third grade. I remember, um, but I didn't do drugs

spk_1:   13:24
at all. No guys in crowd.

spk_0:   13:26
I didn't smoke, didn't drink. I didn't do any of that stuff, but I looked like I did. I looked more like I did than anybody else. Why haircut? I had the clothes. Okay. Skating other. It's known thing. Yes. And so, uh, people have that assumption about me. And I had this, like, rebellious. I think the look was me trying to find my independence in a sense, right? That's kind of what we d'oh. And then in the process of trying to find that independence. Part of that was a rebellion process, but in a really funny way, I rebelled against the perception of me than I did. Against what? Like for My parents always said, if you want a drink, just drink. Yeah, Just don't drive drunk. I love that. So I was always, like, Okay, I can't rebel against that. So I'll rebel against the idea of of me being what everyone keeps calling me. Keep columnist stoner stuff like that. Um, and I also had some really amazing friends. Okay, Who went hard? So I kind of got the experience without going through it myself. You'd living vicariously through a bunch of Russian guys. There we go. Me and they had no limits. They were awesome to grow up with. That's what it's like. Uh, yeah, their stories that won't be told. But there are a lot of crazy things and

spk_1:   14:41
well, off Mike, you can tell me some of them for sure. Um,

spk_0:   14:43
yeah. 16 to through 21 was basically trying not to get caught doing really fun things on the weekends and stuff.

spk_1:   14:51
And so those are things you can not talk about, Not talk. Okay, so we're gonna kind of skip over that. Maybe we'll touch back. No, I'm just joking eyes. So in playing baseball people, I just kind of jump back because he said something, You know, the way that people perceived you back then a major rebel against it. Were you thinking about that consciously like Okay, this people think I'm a stoner, so I'm not gonna do it was just subconsciously

spk_0:   15:14
because again, like that was how old my dad was when he was having kids. So I mean, it's so obvious. My brain's not all there now, in the sense of like you just kind of making decisions completely based on instinct 100%. So there was no conscious thought of rebellion. It was just a reaction.

spk_1:   15:31
And now, you know, in your thirties, you still haven't, you know, smoke. You don't drink, you don't do anything I took. I find that really impressive. You know, even a list of my wife doesn't drink, doesn't smoke. And it's not because sober, it's just, you know, conscious decision that, you know, both of you made ever since you were a kid. And, you know, I see a lot of although you guys were different, right? Very different. Your work ethic could just fucking push in. Dr. You know, you're you're on this career path right now and you're pushing, You know, your business and we'll get to that on the list. Is kind of on this makeup driven. She's bucking, pushing it. And so I respect that because, you know, obviously I like to work hard. I like to push. I like to drive, but for the longest time, I was like, Wait a minute, you've never tried anything and I don't know why it usedto bother me. Used to bother me for Elissa. And it bothered me when I first met you. And it's the stupidest thing in the world because our decisions are decisions. And now, after knowing you for, like, 89 years, I respect the shit out of you for making that decision, S o. You

spk_0:   16:35
know. And the thing is, is that it's no longer a decision. I mean, in I am the most, I am the least judgmental person that probably exists. I just I I think that everybody has their own experiences and that has made them in many different ways. They have perceptions. The way they see life, so they make decisions. But there's no good or there's no bad in any of that. There's just the journey that people are on, right? So when it comes to drinking, I freaking love. When people get trashed because they become so interesting and the fact that I stay sober, I get to kind of experience a different side of them, absolutely, which is great. And drugs, same way, Yeah, any drug anybody does. I'm interested in understanding the personality or who they are as that person.

spk_1:   17:17
I love that. Yeah, I love that because it's you're you're not doing it from a point of negativity. No, not at all. It's like, you know, it's your life. Do what you do and let's talk. Let's have fun. Let's have a good time. And you can still go out there and party harder than the rest of them. Um, and you're completely sober. My bachelor party, everything time we go out, it's just like you are up there as if you were fucked up. But you're definitely fucked up. And exactly. And it's so freaking cool. Um, so, yeah, so it's kinda go back, Uh, you know, 16 years old. Did you have aspirations to go to college? What was kind of in your mind about them

spk_0:   17:52
so much get this right. But Grandpa didn't. Grandma didn't Mom didn't Dad didn't. Nobody went to college, but my brother had it covered because he got a full ride and graduated three years from college. Seriously, my brother's creative smart like he's, he's his work ethic exceeds mine. Really, really. And he's crazy, smart. So it's He's like he's just

spk_1:   18:15
awesome. Are you guys the same, like emotionally? Um, personality ride. Emotionally devoid. Ha. He's

spk_0:   18:22
got a lock on his emotions for sure.

spk_1:   18:24
Okay, Yeah. Is that something that in your family kind of just runs deep? It's no, you know,

spk_0:   18:29
my mom has an ability to control her emotions when she wants to. Really, Really? Well, yes. So you know, and then yeah, I would say that. And I know a lot of people who are like this and a lot of people in the business world like this, there's like a switch flipped this

spk_1:   18:44
way, unless I can do it.

spk_0:   18:45
When you flip the switch, it's like, you know, we'll deal with that later, but right now we don't have the to deal with it.

spk_1:   18:50
Just I can't do that. I was before the broadcast. I say I wear my heart on my sleeve. And you you said you could learn. But, um, you know, I'm 33. I have so many other things to do. So if something bad happens, you know I can't shut that off, and it sucks. But at the same time, I do love it, because when people get to know me, they know that I don't know. It just comes from a place of good, And my emotions are who I am at the same time. So it's kind of good in God. You're

spk_0:   19:22
saying you don't know about me. Ah, and this very relevant Is that my biggest motivational? I guess I'll just call it, uh, a segment. My The segment of what gives me the most motivation on a regular basis is human potential. Yeah, it sounds weird. No, it doesn't, but it's so the loss of human potential seriously upsets me. Uh, and then somebody overcoming something is extremely motivating to me. Eso if somebody has a setback or has something very tragic that happens to them. But Despite that, they choose to be optimistic and use it as a a source of strength. Yes, love it. Absolutely love it. Um, so you know, when it comes to the to the like emotion thing, I guess in some ways I think of, you know, it's not blocking our devoid ing emotions. But I see that I suppose there's a there's a strength and being able to manage your emotions for in a way that's effective. I'm not a psychologist. I love psychology, and I love people understanding people. And I'm sure that there are certain people who benefit from the process of managing their emotions. And there's people who would be more detrimental to try to manage their emotions. Yes, um, you know, holding. You know what is building up? Your people explode, and I don't know how much of that is true. Um, but you've seen people exploded?

spk_1:   20:43
No, no, that's absolutely I totally freaking do. And I just kind of thinking back about my parents and a little bit about that a little bit about your parents that you just shared, You know, you said your mom was really good at that, you know, kind of holding it in and growing Gina managing for sure. Um cold union and I think leads to exploding, right, managing your work on it. You know, right now

spk_0:   21:08
how we're seeing the same things were saying that different Exactly. Which gives them a total different. It That's energy, right? Fish are totally different perception. Yes, because And I do find that I'm often trying to spin things into an optimistic way. You would definitely noise the show of a lot of people. So when I you know, you say, holding in an emotion which is like a negative thing, I agree. That's negative. Don't. Yes, I do, too. But then when I said manage, it's almost like you are maybe turning that into energy and then turning that energy into action for resolve, whatever was causing it in the first place. So these these mental models for how to think about things I think are really powerful for being effective person,

spk_1:   21:46
they are right. And that's, you know, your remember we did the personality test Your your commander. I'm a campaigner. Um, for me growing up, my dad wore his heart on his sleeve for you. Your mom was able to manage her emotions. So growing up we saw two different sides of things and it's just a really incredible that when we're younger, the things that are ingrained into us, the life that we live tends to blossom into our later years. So I don't know. I just find it really incredible that you are the person you are. I'm the person that I am. But at the end of the day, we're best friends and we're brothers. And although we are slightly different or majorly different in other ways, we can come together and do things like this and have fun. And, you know, you

spk_0:   22:34
know, I because I do. I think a lot. Yeah, And I also think very well when I speak. So as I speaking, I'm thinking more clearly than I when I think inside of my head. Um and and I do think that when it when you talk about two very different people being friends, I actually think that the world works much better when we're different. Agreed. If we can communicate yes, which is why communication is one of the most important things is because if you and I are so different but we're able to communicate to get we become a better version of reality. Absolutely. Because we're not isolated into our little camps, for sure. In our echo chambers.

spk_1:   23:11
Sure, I had so true. I know I talk about my wife a lot because she's helped me out a lot. So annoying. But we heard Fuck off. We are so different. Mmm. But at the end of the day, it works. You know, you don't get to 16 years and still be happy. It's through all the ups and downs in life. And that goes to so many things. That's like our relationship. Although we are different, we come together and we bring things from both sides and both sides of the perspective, which then allows us to grow. Yeah, for sure. I do say this and I've been saying it a lot recently. You gave me the greatest advice that anyone has ever told me. And it's so simple. I know it came from Tony Robbins. Just fucking do it.

spk_0:   23:54
Yeah, he says take massive action.

spk_1:   23:57
Okay. Well, I like what you say about it, just like you know. That's it. Just do it. But when you add the fucking just There's that fucking punch to it. I curse a lot.

spk_0:   24:07
Stop thinking. Start doing. Absolutely. That's you know what I've I learned on this is going through. Some of the pulp is I learned so much just from the observation and the realization of watching David Thurston work and how intuitive he was with business is that most people are making mistakes and they're making mistakes every single day, and they're making them all day long. But they're going so God damned slow that it takes them forever to realize they've made a mistake. But if you're just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, speed eventually just makes up for the difference. Yes, and you're like, Oh, sure, that was a mistake. But I've already made three other decisions that have kind of, you know, moved past that mistake in the first place. We're sure you're learning rapidly and you're moving quickly. It's It's the best. It's the best. Rather than overthinking and over planning and then moving slowly,

spk_1:   24:54
you're my 12 podcast, and you're the only person that has listener. And this is in, what, three weeks? Maybe two and 1/2 weeks? Yeah, I shared it with you and your gave me some, you know, critiques. You said, do this, do this. You know, don't be so excited trying to study words blah, blah, blah, blah. But if I didn't just fucking do it, I would still be working on the social media and the logo and the this and that, that this is the first time in my life that I've actually, everything's just kind of coming together, and I appreciate that this was just such a big learning lesson. And so other things in my life I'm gonna do that young. It's stopped talking, trying to waste so much time on the little shit. Do it and you will learn It's about experiences,

spk_0:   25:36
and that's that's level one. Yes, Level two, as it relates to the understanding of speed, is thinking of speed and timing at the same time. Okay, so I give you an example as it relates to product development. Technically, you actually want to go a little bit more methodical through that, creating a product. You turn that speed dial down a little bit, you're doing sales or distribution or trade shows or any of the other stuff that comes from like marketing and sales and growth. Russia has to be done fast. Moving quick. Don't be not waiting on everybody to make decisions around you. Just moving. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. But so little to there's a dial of win to move quickly and when to slow down that speed a little bit

spk_1:   26:20
for sure. And I, uh, Well, maybe when I get to level two will learn that right now. I'm on level one, bitch. So we're gonna bring it back. So you didn't go to college. You were 16. 17. 18. Did go to Carl the way you did. Okay, So where'd you go?

spk_0:   26:32
University of Omaha. So this is there's u N L, which is the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. And then there's inverse Prescott. Omaha. Omaha was the smaller of the two. Okay, Lincoln was like the college town where we go in party and stuff. And that was that was, like, the good big city of the Cornhuskers and the football at Cornhuskers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is actual cell phone in the name. Um, but then Omaha was more the commuter college, so I was in a fraternity. Really? Vice president, fraternity vice president, huh?

spk_1:   27:02
Didn't make it to the president, bitch. Not all the way to the most story. Okay, can you tell the story?

spk_0:   27:07
It was, um It was a little bit of an internal politics thing. Okay, I did it. I was gonna say that's actually a really good inside, too. Is that I like when it comes to political environments. As far as, like, say, a group of people, I'm a non combatant. I don't get involved. I'm like, I'm gonna do my thing. And I'm doing extremely well. Um, in that often other people recognize that, like, super effect person like, Let's this is great. But there is a way of managing, you know, a group of people politically. Yes, I feel like I can't be bothered with. So anyways, VP not president, because I didn't play a particular politicking.

spk_1:   27:45
Okay, well, that makes sense. Do you think that holds you back in anything later for sure? Yeah. Yeah,

spk_0:   27:51
for sure. Um, in 36 I'll get better. You know, recognizing something is the first step, you know, make it better. That is so good. I love that man. Books and audio podcast that I listen to one reeler basis about all of it. Just

spk_1:   28:04
even talking about it for me, you know, going to therapy, talking my shit out, realizing things, bringing things to the front. That's why I like psilocybin so much is because it allows you to bring things to the front. Uh, during, you know, before you came out here, you're like, we should do a fight party for the Kana McGregor fight, which was fucking not to like an elbow through our shoulder. Thought that was amazing. That was amazing. Ah, and I micro dose couple times a week, a lot of people were coming over. I kind of took a little too much. So

spk_0:   28:34
how does that happen?

spk_1:   28:35
Because I didn't weigh it out. So traditionally, I would wait out my doses like 0.1. But I took like, 0.3, which I wasn't bucking like tripping balls. Where did the rocket take off? I was happiness I was setting up. People were coming all of a sudden, um, like my heart starts beating on the walls. Or what kind of turn in a couple of different colors. And what the fuck. And then I realized that I ate too much And so then I got really fucking anxious. And I was like, I want everyone to leave. But more and more people started showing up, which was incredible, because I did not think, you know, 2030 people were even gonna come was kind of last minute, and then eventually it kind of switched. But sitting there watching the fights before the big fight, I just started thinking about a lot of things about life, love, relationships, all of that shit. And I had, ah, kind of coming to Jesus moment with some issues I was dealing with. I'm not gonna talk about

spk_0:   29:30
that was happening while I was just sitting there

spk_1:   29:31
100% 100%. We're

spk_0:   29:34
just going through it

spk_1:   29:35
in my brain. I was like, I was just a robot. And and that's and that's decreasing. And that's why I enjoy So Simon now, when you're younger, When I took it when I was 15 16 17 I fucking hated it. You're not ready. You're not prepared. The frontal cortex is not developed fully until you're like, roughly 25 years old. He really should not be messing with those things. But for me being adult when I introduced it in 29 30 years old. It's helped me out, and I've talked about it on the hard.

spk_0:   30:03
Nothing. But I've heard a lot. Yeah, but I have also heard really good things,

spk_1:   30:06
Of course, Of course. If done correctly, Sure. They are amazing tools. So, yeah, I just kind of jumping off topic. Okay, so I want to bring this back. You were in a fraternity vice president. How long were you there for?

spk_0:   30:20
I was in college for three years.

spk_1:   30:21
Okay. Did you get a degree? No, I dropped out. All right, there we go. What are your thoughts on? Ah, the college education system for today.

spk_0:   30:29
Big ass scam. It is. Um you know, I think that their education is probably the most important thing that exists, but the educational system doesn't is set up like a business absolute. And it's and you've talked to professors like they're like, Yeah, this is we're just adding in, like, an extra two years so that we can charge you these, you know, extra tuition fees for these two years, Um, in truthfully knowledge moves at such a fast speed that there is nothing that I learned in college. Aside from the social aspects, the experience, the experience was really valuable. Argue that, you know, like it was like Camp is experience is a good experience. And it's not because you learn how to build a fire necessarily. But you learn how to engage with people in this kind of chaotic environment, absolutely less structured than you know, your neighborhood or something.

spk_1:   31:17
For sure. It's that next step after you're going to high school, you're living at home and so finally, kind of on your own, you can fuck up. You can do this. You can do that on. Then you kind of hit the real world. And, you know, for me, that's kind of the only part of the college education system I like. Unless you're going to school to become a doctor scientist, that's that's so different.

spk_0:   31:37
There is always an exception,

spk_1:   31:38
of course, but if you're going to school to become a social media, you know, Major, uh, you know, get the fuck out of here. No, go learn from real world experience exactly doing

spk_0:   31:46
it. I spent most of my time in those classes coming up with business ideas. I had awesome we'll call them awesome mentors that I met in the real world while in college. So most the time I was again. These stories, they get a little too sideways. But I had two different mentors this school ever talk about. This is about When was this? This is college. So one of one of the mentors had an interesting set of businesses and another one had more traditional businesses. Um, the more traditional one had sold his company for, like, 60 million bucks or something. Ma crazy. That's awesome. So I met him shortly after that, and the other one ran a few local businesses, a few businesses that are legal today that we're not necessarily legal. Then okay, um, you know, and that's the thing. Like, there were lessons to be learned on both sides of that. And ah, it's It's funny how the lessons that I learned from the traditional person we're not as direct. They were almost like indirect lists were like he would be saying something and I would be seeing the alternative side while he was saying, you know, ah, lots of trust issues and lots of what if there's a great example when you have a client. There's two ways to approach it. You either spend as much time as you can with the clients. So the client loves you, and you know you're always there. You know what's going on? You could be supportive, and you could be helpful in your, like a good vendor to that person. On the other side of it is stay away from them so that you don't screw it up. He was the stay away, so you don't screw it up. And so was like, Okay, well, I see I see your point. I see why you're saying that. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say the other thing is actually much better. Of course. Um And then you know the other guy. It was a smattering of lessons across, you know, a couple of years. And those lessons were hard lessons to learn. But it was the real world. That's awesome. It was awesome. But not always positive experiences in the moment. That's all right. But you walk away, and in many ways I think maybe that prepared me still live in Los Angeles. Yes, because I know that growing up I had kind of an ideal growing up. You know, it was very idealistic with having two parents that were so engaged in, like, loving and thoughtful and supportive that the real world is not like that. No, it's not. No one gives a shit sometimes, you know, um and so it was nice to have a little bit of a rough experience and the, you know, in the pursuit of what I wanted for sure. Uh, that was kind of a good introduction to the real world.

spk_1:   34:20
I love that. Yeah, I really do like that. Because getting both sides of the coin and for you, even at a young age, seen the more traditional guy the things that even saying like Okay, well, that's good advice. But if I just flip it, it could be better advice and then taking, um, you know, the situational lessons that you learned from the non traditional person, even though maybe at times, they weren't good taking something out of it. Because a lot of times as humans, we think that when things are bad, we can't really take anything out of it. But as you probably know, some of the best lessons you have learned and I have learned are from failures.

spk_0:   35:01
Core of who I am as a person. Yeah, it's Thea. It's being completely in love with whatever fate has decided. Is yours Tau experience? Absolutely. So there's like judgment. And then there's acceptance. And then there's love is the top. So it's, you know, most people navigate life with this judgmental attitude. This is bad. This is good. I don't want this. I want this not a great way to live because you're gonna be totally at the mercy of whatever happens. Then there's acceptance, which is a great way to live because you're like, OK, I'm cool with this. It is what it is. Things happen, you know? But then there's another level called love were like, I love that That just happened. I'm so in love that my car just got stolen. I'm still in love. My car just got broken into. I'm so in love. I just got fired. I'm so like and you find a way, and it sounds crazy. It does. But if you can find a way to actually be that optimistic, you're freaking invincible.

spk_1:   35:54
It's true. That's true. I I wish that I could be optimistic about everything. And maybe it is because I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am optimistic about a lot of things, but at times, sometimes in the moment I can be slightly jaded. Let's work on this. Okay, let's hear. Okay. So are you ready? Let me just give you a major

spk_0:   36:11
logic, right? Optimism is the most logical thing, right? Here's why. Uh, day one of whatever the thing is, you're optimistic. Day two socks like I'm gonna stay optimistic. Day three. You're still optimistic, but it just keeps getting worse. But you like it's gonna go good. Everything's cool. Eventually it's gonna be it's gonna be and you never stop. Guess what happens. What happens eventually it turns around. It does. It may not happen when you expect it, but it will eventually always turn around. Yeah, so and now this is That's very general for sure. And so sometimes you have to apply it to the big picture. Like I have big picture optimism that just doesn't stop

spk_1:   36:50
and I can't turn it off. You're the biggest dream I know. Oh,

spk_0:   36:52
my God. I would never I would never want to even try to understand how to turn it off. That's true even. And then the deeper that you can dig that optimism in into different areas, it just makes everything better. Yeah, and it doesn't work great around other people. But here's the funny thing is that you need those people, too, because being an optimist can actually blind you from a lot of pretty serious risks. And so when you're just like Go, go, go, go. And even if you have, like four other people with you, they're like, Go, go, go, go! There need to be one person being like

spk_1:   37:23
Look the fuck out. There's a cliff. Yes, yes, And that's and that's important because you once again, you want both sides of the coin. So if you have four people, you on three of them to be optimistically, you want that other person back? It looked the other fucking way. Yeah, so then you can kind of bring that together. Do you take a lot of these things that you're saying? Do you kind of bring them back? And these are things that you kind of learned when you were younger from your parents, because your parents being 17 18 years old, having two amazing successful kids that have been able to just kind of fucking do it. It blows. Mother's three of us, actually. Three give assistance to give a sister. Sorry. I apologize. Yeah, Tonto, She's she's doing also three kids. You know, one thing I've noticed is by doing this podcast, the people that have ah, a successful mama, successful dad. And I'm not talking about success even in the money turned. Just you get what I'm saying. Their lives have been a lot easier to get to the point where they're at. And so for the bigger picture, what does that have to say? Um, it actually does say a law. And I never realized this before because I lost my dad at 17 years old and itwas, of course, and there's tons of people that go through it. But at the end of the day, my parents should have got divorced. But your parents, you know, through the ups and downs they were able to manage, figure it out. And it's just a direct reflection of who you are today. And so

spk_0:   38:58
I want the APs I want a life lottery with, um yeah, even even when it was I mean, I even think this is exactly we just talked about. I love the fact that they were so young and unprepared. Yeah, here's a great reason why, Because you ask if I learned these things directly from them, I would say yes, but also indirectly, because think about it. You got an 18 year old dad was like, I gotta figure shit out. So he just starts listening to Zig Ziglar and Tony Robbins. Yes. And so I'm like a baby just soaking in all this like optimism and positivity and like, how to live life. It's just my dad trying to figure shit out, But it's being kind of like I'm in the environment, actually, just soaking it up your sponge sponge is so in that sense, Yeah, I was, you know for sure if he was 36 had kids, Maybe he's like, I can't be listening to

spk_1:   39:43
Tony, But I hope so. You know, I'm 33 I planned I think I'm gonna have kids in the next couple of years. Uh, that hasn't stopped. If anything for me, it's gotten Maur. You know I'm not. Listen, listen to these things. And maybe that's because I did not do it when I was younger, eh? So I'm catching up for past time. But, you know,

spk_0:   40:03
I think it's good to always listen until I find myself listening to them all the time. So and it's almost because the brain is looking for patterns and you gotta feed it a pattern from time to time. And the world can be pretty rough sometimes. So if it's always being fed this bullshit from the real from the world, it's nice to just, you know, program it in the morning and listen to something real positive when you wake up for sure and just be like, Okay, that's the pace for the

spk_1:   40:26
day Exactly. It sets the tone. Do you think that's why Jordan Peterson has become so popular because he says it how it is? I can't speak too

spk_0:   40:33
much doing piers because I don't really listen to too much. I I know that he has a life philosophy, that a lot of people are really attracted to you. Yes, and I think that, uh, everybody should have a life philosophy, and the more structured it is, I think, the better off you are because, ah, lot of the mental process of figuring out what to do is kind of taking care of when you're like like, for example, if part of who you are as a person as you don't eat fast food or you don't eat meat or whatever, there's not a lot of mental energy that goes into that decision making any longer. Yes, for me, drinking for drunks, there's no mental process. And whether or not I'm going to do that, I just don't just don't want so. But that's, you know, those air easy do's and don'ts that a little bit more complicated life philosophies. I think people should really spend time with absolute um, night. I do have a pre structure life philosophy. I know what I want. In 100 years. I know what I want 50 and what I want 25. And I don't want to, um, and I try not to go, you know, to close like months

spk_1:   41:32
now, free for you, your goals, your dreams, your aspirations. Do you write them down on a board newspaper in the brain piece paper

spk_0:   41:38
and I haven't broken up into different sections.

spk_1:   41:41
You've been doing that since you've been younger, or

spk_0:   41:43
is this recent? I mean, I guess the time before now that I remember doing it most distinctly. Um okay, High school for sure I did it. Um, I did it because I remember doing it. So you've done it. I structured it really well with Pulp. And I had a very poor Brian and I had a very It was based off of what? David's, er plan Waas. And so I almost I just kind of adopted his plan. But I had it written down. I looked at it every single day, every single morning. I looked at it, I love that. And it was It was just there. It was

spk_1:   42:17
close to my learned for the people listening that have no idea what Paul pry it is. And we will get to that story when we get there. Right? But just kind of let them know what was pope, right? What is pop right? Hair

spk_0:   42:27
color companies. So it's fast growing here. Killer company. The world of the last pride. Three years? Yeah, acquired by Loreal last year.

spk_1:   42:34
Yeah, it's amazing. All right, so let's kind of bring it back and we'll get there s so you're kind of going through college. You went three years. What was next? After that?

spk_0:   42:43
Well, I dropped out and I dropped out. The dad dropped out was a day where I was in the library and I was doing a women's suffrage collage, which I had to rush through because I had to also write a poem after that on some topic. But in between all that, I had to go take my golf final. So what the fuck am I

spk_1:   43:03
doing? Buck is a hat. And so I ripped

spk_0:   43:05
up the women's suffrage poster. Love woman suffers, right? They ripped it up. I had all these foreign exchange student friends that were sitting there. It just like the silly side. One thing They didn't know what was going on in my head. They just think I'm cutting and pasting like a happy day. Next thing I'm like ripping shit up there in the trash. In a way, I'm

spk_1:   43:21
done. I'm done. Fuck, yeah,

spk_0:   43:23
So I blitzed. I just done with it. There's there's a few moments in my life where I've done that like that's very poor, poorly planned emotional decisions that eventually you make work,

spk_1:   43:33
you know, that's Ah, that's crazy because, you know, although we all have emotions, right, Um, you're not a very emotional person on the outside. So doing something like that, that's that's definitely emotional. It is emotional. And it's taking a risk, because at that moment, things ah, could have gone many different ways. How?

spk_0:   43:56
The two mentors. Yeah, and that was taking up a good portion of my time. So I already felt like I was again, kind of little bit shortsighted at that point. Huge in the fashion, though I want to start a fashion company.

spk_1:   44:08
Really? That was that was totally Tokyo death machine. Tokyo whatthe does. So that's cool, right? Does Tokyo Death Mission. But it's a fashion company

spk_0:   44:18
s. So it was a clothing company. I wanted to start my friend Nate Styles, and I were working on it, And, uh, that was that was the day my life was kind of split between all these different things. That eventually was the impetus that led to me living in Los Angeles, though, really, Because so we can kind of progress the story a little bit here, um, while working for the two mentors. One was getting way too crazy. It was just getting way too intense. And I was like, That's not good. That's not a good road. And when he wasn't good enough,

spk_1:   44:48
I know which one you're talking. I was like, I

spk_0:   44:50
think these lessons have been learned on. And then the other one, uh, one day I had talked to him about fashion. He called it the rag trade. Okay, Definitely no respect.

spk_1:   45:02
He worked entitling the rattling, learning that's fucked up.

spk_0:   45:04
It is. Um uh wasn't fan of it. And once I expressed interest in it, he was kind of done, and he left him a voice mail one day. That was just like, hey, and we'd work together for, like, two years. And it was, like, really close. Like I. So he had all that money that had got from the exit, and he had incoming business plans that I would see and we talk about them. He'd have me run errands here in a coffee shop. There's all these things that you're 21 22 23 around there. Yeah, someone 21 234 And, uh, all that stuff was really made. It he liked was real high level. So I learned a lot from him as, like, the technical style stuff. Um, and, ah, some political stuff, too. I learned, but anyway, so it eventually He just called that day and was like, I'm done, you know? Thanks for the time. And it was off. I called him back, Didn't answer, never never talked to a gun. I went to jail recently.

spk_1:   45:58
What? I don't want to talk about this. And I wish

spk_0:   46:00
the best for everybody there. Sure. And, uh, I it's just funny that he went to jail for, uh, basically, I think it was unlicensed trading. Okay, so you basically take people's money with the promise of a return. You can't do that without a license. Not a license. I was So it's someone sent it to me.

spk_1:   46:21
Wow. Didn't just work for this guy, Mike. Holy shit. That's fucking crazy.

spk_0:   46:25
But I wish him the best. I mean, I recently spent you know, your half in Cambridge, and it was a pretty isolated experience where I wasn't around a ton of people very often, and it gave me some introspection on what it's like to be isolated and how that how that could affect somebody. And I had a strong feeling that he feels isolation.

spk_1:   46:44
I would think so in jail. You, you know, not just in jail outside of Jeff.

spk_0:   46:49
Once the exit happened for him, he lived in a mansion that was up on a hill that had a big gate and never saw anybody but his dog that I was like, probably the persons on the most right wing.

spk_1:   46:58
That's why when a lot of people think, you know, money brings you happiness, money can bring you happiness for sure. Right. But when does it become just you being by yourself? Don't

spk_0:   47:08
think money brings happiness. Um, haven't haven't inside

spk_1:   47:11
of lies.

spk_0:   47:12
That's interesting. Where it's or least I find it interesting. Um, money solves problems.

spk_1:   47:18
There we go. But that can be

spk_0:   47:19
what it hears. The cool thing about problems. You never solve all your problems. Just replace them for new problems. 100%. And what's interesting is that if you do make money or a considerable on money and your problems shift, what we normally talk about with our friends, our problems, that's like a basis for conversation. So when you start talking to your friends about, you know, tax implications. And they're like, you shut the fuck up. I make 9 50 an hour. Like what are you talking about? No, I okay, I can't talk to you about this. Yeah, And you're like, I'm trying to think we're going this new car trying move into this place. Like, suddenly, your friends have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. And your problems are no longer a lying in there. Just kind of like, OK, well related. You're isolated. And it's not like you just pick up this whole new group of friends that are like, Hey, over here, bro. Like we got

spk_1:   48:05
you a club.

spk_0:   48:08
You actually just end up isolated as fuck on, Not with a lot of people. Talk about about things that you're actually trying to figure out and solve, you know, And people were like, Okay, cool. But I mean, hey, I mean, like, good problems that have, right?

spk_1:   48:20
We're social creature. A source for short. We need to bond. That's why they say on the people that have just, like, hit that cusp of financial freedom, right where money isn't an issue. But it's not so big that it causes bigger issues. We call that MacDonald. Exactly. Yeah, Yeah. Fuck you. Money not there yet. McDonald's riches like Okay, um, but those individuals that can just pay their bills do nice things. They say statistically speaking, that they are the happiest. Because once you get past that bracket, you do have bigger problems. And especially if you've been around people your entire life that are not, you know that wealthy. Well, then you have all those problems to yourself because you can't talk about tax problems. You can't talk about this or that s o you can't relate.

spk_0:   49:09
And you also feel like you don't want to necessarily talk about these things because they imply a level of wealth that you don't want to like that. You want to be seen like that. It's not. You want to be seen for the things that you care about and that you do not.

spk_1:   49:22
But that does suck because, you know, if you're a friend and your friend does have more money than you, you should be open toe talk about whatever. And so if you kind of put that out there, I don't know,

spk_0:   49:34
but it's not that they don't want to is that they're not dealing with the same problem, which means their level of being able to, you know, to comment or provide anything.

spk_1:   49:44
Believe, addict, it's just not there for sure so far. But, you know, for even for like, you and I, we are at different levels in our life. Uh, but if you have a problem, I can still be empathetic towards you. And maybe I don't understand at that same level, but I can understand Does that make sense? In a sense, yeah, Yeah, but I maybe just not everyone's like me too

spk_0:   50:05
well. And the other thing is that I am an introspective person. Yes. So I don't even know if most people identify these problems because once you identify a problem, you can at least start to navigate, for sure. But if you never identify it, you just go off of instinct. You become isolated and you recoil, and then, you know it's it's a whole different process, I guess If you don't try to understand, I just I love people. I love psychology. I love my own psychology. Left figuring out How are we thinking? Why are we thinking that way? It's just super interesting.

spk_1:   50:32
So sorry. Um eso you What was that point when you're like, OK, I'm moving to Los Angeles. What the fuck up?

spk_0:   50:39
So I went to ah, trade show called Magic. Okay? And it was a fashion trade show. Was also was like magic pool and motor. I think we're the three they did together and they did in Las Vegas. Okay? And I ran into this amazing guy and Cassidy Haley. That's a great name. Yes. At the time, he was one of the founders of a clothing line called Skin Graft. I was blown away. Actually, I gotta go back for that. Uh, there's a guy named Devin Taylor who I still consider him a friend. We just don't talk ever. Ah, he's in Vegas, but we're very mentally. We're very I feel like we're very aligned in our interest in stuff. Um, but he that was way back. I don't know if anybody's gonna know this, but there's a clothing line that was like an underground clothing line, but it was, like, really sick back in the day. Call bleeding star clothing.

spk_1:   51:29
That's a great name that I don't know I've never had.

spk_0:   51:31
He was out of Ohio. His graphic designer make cool clothes, had a dope website. Um, and I was like, This is the coolest thing ever. And actually, that's why I initially got into, uh, clothing and wanted to start Tokyo death machine.

spk_1:   51:44
Seriously? Yeah, I did. Because of this individual you're just so enamored by he

spk_0:   51:48
had a website called, uh uh, is graphic design website. And I heard a song on there by a band called the Refused You

spk_1:   51:56
have your staff

spk_0:   51:57
and it's It's like that song they're known for its just It's like, I heard it and I was like, Oh, my life's entirely different from this point

spk_1:   52:05
for I love you.

spk_0:   52:08
And so and so then I just I just went into, like, this whole of like, holy crap. Who is this guy? What does he do? What is this all about? You know, and this is like early Tyler, like I like it was like, finally excited about something. I still have a huge loafer fashion. Um, although we're like the same thing. Everything,

spk_1:   52:25
of course, but I've always known that about you, for sure.

spk_0:   52:27
So, uh, so he was so I get really obsessed with that. Um, he's gonna be at the trade shows out there, so I'm like, I'm just gonna go out there. I think I'd message him a couple times in responded sauce I call the Crabber is responding. Um And so and then I met the skin graft people who were very different. They were like, boutique fashion. And so there was, You know, what Devon was doing was really cool from a graphic design in the street. Where and then what Cassidy and John were doing was like, like, high end fashion that was like, from another planet. It was so impressive. And it was to the point where I'm like, I can't like, I feel like I could be inspired by bleeding star. And I could emulate that. Yes, I could just love, like, skin graft, but I can't do that. That wasn't who I was as a person like, I couldn't hit that level clearly accepting my limit and that

spk_1:   53:14
I love that about you, man.

spk_0:   53:15
Yeah, so? So? So he was I go back Thio Los Angeles. And at that show, I met a woman named Cindy Bailey who ah owned a company called Art Impressions. Who was artist art representation licensing company who was working with a company called Skill Animals. Sarah. Upscale animals that Skeleton Animals clothing company. It was, ah, license brand, which means they had stuffed animals at T shirts that they had everything you could basically turn a brand into. And ah, so so I met her was a good interaction. I went back to Omaha and I told Ah, I told Nate was like Nate, we got through. We got the fashion show. We got to raise the money to move to Los Angeles. And so I think I was working for Red Bull at the time. Just driving one of those little truck.

spk_1:   54:01
Wait a minute, Wait a minute. All them you were working for Red Bull, you

spk_0:   54:04
understand? I've had 48 49 actual jobs, like little like hourly jobs throughout. I work for a Chinese restaurant. Hollister. Abercrombie Paperboy. For a while, I mean, I

spk_1:   54:17
didn't done it. Ah ha.

spk_0:   54:18
Stakes are washed. Windows I cleaned off. I mean, I literally done it

spk_1:   54:22
all. How old were you when you got your first job? In them? Will bounce back

spk_0:   54:25
was detached selling corn when I was 14. Wait. What? Yeah, The tassel in Quincy was So when you plant corn, you plant one male row and four female rose. Okay? The nail road grows tall, and the female rose draw a little bit shorter. All right, I got machines to do this, but they'd rather soon, I guess. 14 year old kids

spk_1:   54:41
I love that cornfield way

spk_0:   54:43
to get up at 4 a.m. Meet at this high school. Drive out to the middle of nowhere with, like, all these people. I don't know. I think my brother was with me and maybe I met a few people. And then what we could do is just walk down the aisles of corn de tassel ing. And basically the females would grow a tassel at the top. You have to pull the tassel out so that the males could pollinate the females. And you'd be going and going and going. And then you run. Tow a massive field spider and you'd scream and you'd run. And then your leader would

spk_1:   55:10
get back. Get back here. Little following

spk_0:   55:13
somebody following about 20 feet behind you, catching everything you missed.

spk_1:   55:17
No way.

spk_0:   55:18
It was It was rough. It was scary. Not scary. It's rough. I felt like it felt like you were one of the lost boys or something. Okay. Like you were like, it was weird. I mean, I want to think about it today. I'm like, it's a little weird.

spk_1:   55:30
I don't know what exactly is doing. Whatever. Our That's okay. So first job.

spk_0:   55:37
And then it was like bagging groceries. And

spk_1:   55:39
the whole fucking night, everything all right? So I kind of go back forward. Vegas had your telly.

spk_0:   55:43
So, uh, so Nate and I was like, Hey, we got the fashion show, and, uh, he had randomly known this photographer named Michelle Star. And what was funny was I was on my space looking around for, like, who? I wanted to shoot Tokyo death before Instagram before Facebook MySpace. Tom is your friend. Exactly. And s o and I go to Nate. I said he needed a friend. It's amazing. Photography shows the Los Angeles Rams. Michelle, he goes. I know where I could. No, you don't did. We're in Iowa because he lived in council bluffs. And I'm like, we're just two dudes. The middle of nowhere. She's a Los Angeles. Photography's like I'll call her right now. He calls her and she answered, She's like, Hey, how are you? And she was gonna go visit and she had apparently grew up in Des Moines. Wow. And so she was going back for a wedding. So we went out there and, you know, I totally weren't those fashion show I'd love if you came out and shot. She was the photographer for school animals as well. And also for Ah, this guy named Jason. Measures like cool studio, ever like several a dude. Um, it as a Midwestern guy, I'm like, Who's just got her throat, tattoos and shit on. And he had a clothing line called Malice.

spk_1:   56:45
That's how, actually, sounds familiar.

spk_0:   56:46
Yeah, it was really big for awhile. Super dope. Really cool. The time we're told a lot of bands, okay? And he end up being graphic designer for a lot of the bands, you know, super metal looking. It's like he did all that zombies and shit like that. So, uh, so he was. And then I met another guy named Ben Spangler who was still a really good friend as he lives in Minneapolis. When my parents moved Amazing chef like one of the best and just started a on ice cream company called Baby Zito's Babies. He does gonna be huge. Is it online? S? Oh, it's really hard to ship ice cream, okay? And so it's all local in Minneapolis

spk_1:   57:20
off your Minneapolis. It's gonna be so he makes like Skittles ice cream. He made pizza ice cream. Well, I eat

spk_0:   57:26
ice cream that tastes like pizza. And it was good. Yes, the dude's been a chef his entire life. Like when I talk about work at thinking obsessive like, Here's me, Here's my brother. He's been He's like like Simon Level Oh yeah, Simon's machine with No one's that Simon He's like bins like superhuman in comparison to Like most people as far as his work, it's like always, food constantly love. He's worked at every major restaurant in Minneapolis, and now he's decided to finally do his own thing, and he's gonna freaking kill it.

spk_1:   57:55
Good for him, man. Well, I'll put up at his information in the credits of the podcast.

spk_0:   57:59
Super Super agree, but he had at the time he had a clothing line called Pure Imagination Clothing pulled off the Willy Wonka stuff. Yeah, I love that. Ah, s o he. Ah. So I got Ben from pure imagination. Jason from malice. Michelle star came out and shot it. Ah, and then school animals was in it. And then Tokyo death machine was obviously and it was the whole reason through. And then a local local designer named, um, autopilot.

spk_1:   58:25
Autopilot? Yeah. How old were you at this time? 23. So this is the first time you really put something big together

spk_0:   58:32
you got? I've been doing, like, knickknack entrepreneur stuff for sure. Gonna hold the whole through the

spk_1:   58:37
whole process 23 years old. This is like a culmination of everything that you have learned up until that point and kind of you can put all the pieces to the puzzle. And this was like, the first time. I'm just

spk_0:   58:49
No, uh, there were There were things. There's so many things that I had done that had in the fashion industry, Not the fashion. For example, my friend Steve Katz and I, Steve's still an amazing friend. Awesome. Ah, poker player actually makes his living to his freaking super smart guy. Um but he and I did a thing called the Black Book. And around we'll announce all the bars in Omaha and got him to give, like, coupons are four drinks, and it was, like, you know, a $5 drink. Ah, and then we got I think, like 100 bucks worth of drinks in this thing. And then we printed off these really cool keep on books. And then we took it to fraternities to do to do two doas fundraisers. Nice. So they would sell these $100 drink for 20 bucks? Yeah. Has a small knickknack. No, but that's cool. You learn stuff in the process of doing these weird things. Those

spk_1:   59:38
were always for, like, Wendy's and, like, stupid places like that. So to put it together for drinks for as a

spk_0:   59:43
real mean looking and it was like

spk_1:   59:45
I got a cz faras kind of putting. So that was really cool by, as in the fashion industry, all of these different people from all over the place, um, it sounds a little bit bigger than that. Book.

spk_0:   59:59
Also had a promotions company called 60.

spk_1:   1:0:01
Hey, man, I'm just trying to build you up here. You want that? We'll give it a moment and I don't want

spk_0:   1:0:06
that go. I just Can I talk about the make it rain party? Okay. Maybe Bon will hope he's listening. While that's a great name, too. Awesome. Dude did. This is He's like, he's, like, 10 feet tall from the Ivory Coast. Like the most positive person. Everything is in Vegas doing promotions. Now, I sweep through this party call to make it rain party. And what we did is it was a place called Citrus in Omaha, Nebraska, and I think it's everywhere. But we took the entire door, which ended up being like 1500 bucks, turned it all into ones and just threw it on the dance floor. It was ridiculous. Wait. What? Yeah, I would make it rain. It was when that song came out.

spk_1:   1:0:45
Yeah, absolutely. That fucking love that wouldn't make

spk_0:   1:0:48
any money that way. Like we were like local celebrities for, like, 2022 minutes.

spk_1:   1:0:52
Dude, who's $1500 was That was from

spk_0:   1:0:56
the door, right? Okay, look, 10 bucks to get in. It's all in ones, and they just way just stood on the bar. So anyways, I did a lot of really stupid businesses that didn't make a ton of money. But I learned a lot in the process, even even doing something like that. I don't know. You get comfortable with walking up to complete strangers and be like, What are you doing with your Friday night? No, no, no. You gotta go Here. This is gonna be great. So you learn these, you know, human interactions or whatever important, they sound stupid. But, man, I'm telling you, a lot of people can't walk up to a stranger and talk to him.

spk_1:   1:1:24
No, a lot of people can't.

spk_0:   1:1:26
I mean, it's not an easy thing to do, Not at all. But it's a valuable thing, if you can do it.

spk_1:   1:1:29
Absolutely. Do you think that is something that you learn? Or is it something that is, you know, innately built into us?

spk_0:   1:1:39
Uh, you learn because it's not comfortable. At no point does it ever become truly comfortable. Especially if your silver are sure. So it's not. I can't say that it's innate Lee built in, but you know, what I think of often is that there's like a teeter totter. And on the other side of the teeter totter is what you want. And then on the other, the flip side is what you're willing to d'oh! And if what you want is have everything, what you're willing to do, you're gonna do it. Sure. I think I might have fucked that up, but

spk_1:   1:2:05
you know I do. But you know, here's the thing. It's like you have someone like me and then you have someone like Ron right running our buddy. He does warehouse management for understanding tools. For me, walking up to someone that I don't know as long as I can remember is 100 times easier than someone like Iran walking up to someone now. That was not something I learned. It was something that I just have always been. So I do believe that people are more. There are people that are more inclined and that it's a lot easier. Yeah, then there's not. And that's the last

spk_0:   1:2:40
we'll call it. Uh, there's a There's a wiring of calmness or something to allow you to approach somebody. Yeah, you know, because people read each other really quickly and you walk in, you're all sketch. They're gonna be like, What the fuck is happening right now. But if you can maintain, you know, low energy levels are whatever energy level they get somebody, like, comfortable. Maybe maybe that's something. But I definitely think a lot of these

spk_1:   1:3:00
things can be learned. Well, you know, kind of getting something that has learned right When I started this podcast, I would always think about what should I say next? The next word when someone's talking and what was happening was I was halfway listening. Um, And then I started to realize, drawn a blank on the chicks name that wrote this book, but, uh, kind of make to make it simple. She's She was saying that when you sit there and think about what you're going to say next, you're only halfway listening to the conversation. So if you fully listen to the conversation, you're more engaged. That conversation is gonna flow a lot better. And I have taken that and, you know, the short amount of time I've been doing this and it feels a lot more natural. S O. That was definitely learned. Now completely different are saying, but things can definitely be learned. Whatever the hell it is

spk_0:   1:3:51
we learn by doing. But I mean? I think most people I'm sure there's different ways of learning for sure. Learning by doing it really solidified. Just

spk_1:   1:3:59
fucking do it. Yeah, exactly. Just fucking do. Okay, so get back to that. Everything you're putting together for

spk_0:   1:4:05
us. We put together this, uh, awesome shy the awesome local D J Brink Rampton. I believe his name was super cool. Guys still in the world. I think, Um, he was a deejay, so obviously brought crowd in. I had It was called audio style. Nice. Yeah, I love the name because it was a mix of music. We made music part of the deal to rebel sponsored it, which was cool. So they sponsor this huge stage was shaped like a three with the one arm on it. Um, it was at a place called the Nomad, which was just really cool bar. It was like all brick inside had art everywhere. It was super collective looking cool. So everybody flew out from the respective cities. We did the show. It was it was good. I raised just enough money to basically get myself to Los Angeles. But more importantly, ah, since school animals was in it and it was obviously success, and Michelle came out to call the photos. I was offered a job at school Animals. Nice. So that was like my landing pad for Los Angeles. So I pulled the ripcord. I was like, Let's do this and ended up in Los Angeles. Uh oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, That's basically. And then Nate followed Ah, a few months later, and we live together in the Van Nuys with Michelle Wie. I ended up living with Michelle start

spk_1:   1:5:21
small photographer, right?

spk_0:   1:5:23
So And that was cool. It was for a couple of years. We did.

spk_1:   1:5:26
So do you remember the moment that you got to L. A. How you felt?

spk_0:   1:5:31
I remember driving and art impressions for the first time, and I called my friend and Vou and I was like and I am concerned, really. I remember the conversation. I remember. What was that on the one on one? And I remember feeling like I'm so unsure. But she said, like the most positive shit to me, it was like the right person to call at the right time. And ah, I don't everything before after that, but clearly it was good.

spk_1:   1:5:55
I always I fully know what you're talking about. The right person at the right time. Once again, I'm gonna go back to you. I was talking about the recycling little thing that I wanted to because you're the person that I would go to five Fine idea or thought And, ah, when you said those words, just fucking do it. I put that towards the podcasts and look at where we are today. So it is ripe purse and right Time to kind of help. You kind of get through whatever the heck is going on. So you didn't have that feeling of, like, fucking made it even though you Ah, God,

spk_0:   1:6:25
no. I was terrified. Did good, because the first year Los Angeles was the heart walk on our course. But it was tough, and it was tough because I was away from my my group, right? No friends, no family, necessarily. I had Michelle, actually, that was great. Michelle introduced me to everybody and I met. I mean, I'm at 100 people all through her. That someone we're still friends. Uh, l A is a very transient city, especially the scene that that was which was like the kind like the rocks. I don't know what to call it, really, But it was a music scene mixed with a lot of art. Okay, a lot of models and a lot of it was very much transient. So here today, gone tomorrow is really where does that person that you know, it's like all they moved back to their hometown. We ran the money like that happens a lot totally happens. Lost in Hollywood was our sweet most my time. So that was

spk_1:   1:7:13
for sure. And it's ah, not only is it hard because there's so many people, but it's expensive, you know, You do have to make a considerable amount of money to live in these places, or you just

spk_0:   1:7:24
have really sketchy living situation.

spk_1:   1:7:26
Well, that too, right? Right. But which one do you want when you're younger? When you're younger, those are things that you gotta go through, man. I used to live in one of the ghetto is parts of Florida when I was 22 years old, but it created a lot of character. It helped me out of the five hours is definitely neighborhood. It's seriously does all the frickin time, The craziest shit that you ever hear. Where does it come from, Lord of Florida? I mean, I can literally close my eyes now that's in Florida when you're living there is fucking crazy. I remember there was this one place called Loxahatchee, and I swear to you, you get into this town and it was like, 18 frickin 45. Uh, the South like you got Confederate flags everywhere when just that crazy shit. Everyone's got their shotguns and there's tons of nice, amazing people. But I remember what my friends would like to do on the weekends. They would like to go wake boarding so they would go to Lake Loxahatchee, one of the friends, but have a bow and they would get in. Now, mind you, there's like 1000 fucking alligators in this one lake. I've wake boarded a whole bunch of times. What I ever get in that water. Are you fucking kidding me? No, no, I'm am bullshitting. And the thing is is like, Well, that's you know, those people from Florida, Like, who the fuck does that? Florida's awesome. Some places are crazy. Someplace good. That's kind of

spk_0:   1:8:52
a South thing. Sure was in the South but a lot of my memories of people being reckless was ST Joseph. People lighting fireworks that would blow up like on them. Like I watched a guy get lit on fire by a firework that he was funny. I'm on fire. Nobody said as you ran away headed on film.

spk_1:   1:9:08
Is he okay? Yeah, actually passed way. He's dead. And you're

spk_0:   1:9:14
letting awesome life from what I could tell.

spk_1:   1:9:16
Okay, Um and so I mean, well, that's kind of just cause there's not a lot of do lots of stuff to do. So you gotta make your own stuff up, right? Um, yeah. Yeah, that's how it is when you live in someone like L. A. There's always something going on.

spk_0:   1:9:30
Yeah. Try not to get set on fire on a daily basis.

spk_1:   1:9:33
That's kind of the struggle. The struggle is real when you kind of now bringing it all the way back. So when you come to L. A, uh, how long we got Skill animal for?

spk_0:   1:9:42
So he was actually colored impressions. I was There are impression site. It gets all fuzzy, but maybe two years, maybe a year. It wasn't. It wasn't long time. Oh, yeah, it was another one of situations. So s Oh, so we're there for a while? And, you know, there was a expectation I had to be put into a sales position. It's what I had really kind of lived off of for a while. Uh, it didn't come to fruition and probably business environment changed a little bit, but, you know, I'm not pointing fingers, but either way, it wasn't working out. And there was a day where a particular bender was coming in that I really liked, and ah, I was gonna be in the meeting, had expected to be, like, brought into the meeting to learn, you know, And first thing I was asked to go get coffee. No flash back to college. Fuck this and I'm out.

spk_1:   1:10:28
You light yourself on fire. I thought

spk_0:   1:10:32
I was done and I walked out. I called my dad pretty quick, and I was like, I just quit. Don't know what to do. And I don't remember the advice, but I'm sure it was like, Man, you gotta figure it out. So I ended up on Craigslist and ah, that's

spk_1:   1:10:45
how I got into the beauty industry. It's so right when you. Ah, right. When you walked out, did you do, like, you know? Fuck you. Fuck you! Fuck you. Your corn. Throw the coffee or what? What was it?

spk_0:   1:10:55
Coffee never was never retrieved. Um, I I just I actually think I said, Sure, I'll be right back. And I never went back in. I think that's what it was.

spk_1:   1:11:05
Fuck that Me. And how will be 24 24 years like, man, that's

spk_0:   1:11:10
what I had a rent and a car payment, and I have much money in the bank. So shit was gonna get real real fast

spk_1:   1:11:15
and going through that, you were probably stressed the fuck out. Um, you know, I don't think I felt too much stress at the time. You were weird, dude, to be

spk_0:   1:11:26
quite honest, it's amazing. It's not, but I mean, and, you know, I felt strong at that time. I didn't feel much dress. I've felt stress in my life for sure, man, for sure. Like you don't try to do things like that. Like, build businesses about feeling stress. But there was something about that. I think I was too young to recognize the danger.

spk_1:   1:11:44
Okay, Okay. Well, actually, you're You're naive. And I do, actually, you're right. Um, because I did feel the same way. It wasn't until I got into my mid to late twenties that I started stressing out that was me toe. So I do get that. All right, so you get on Craig's list and you look for an escort. Yeah, Just let's

spk_0:   1:12:04
go. I actually was just looking for any opportunity, and, uh, I actually found okay, this is when this is when I actually met. Ah Scott Cox. Scott Cox. He was he was running, um, flattering company. GH GH d j h d. Yeah. And then So I found two opportunities. Both were in beauty, which was interesting. One was GHT, which was the flattering company. And it was like a sales position. Sweet his car. It was, ah, laptop. It was kind of awesome. It was like a sweet deal. And then there was another opportunity, which was a scissor sharpener. And he was living in a trailer with his wife, his kids, and they wanted to charge me $1100 to get my first set of shears that I would use to then walk into salons with if the audience doesn't know scissors are. Our shares are really important tool for a hairdresser. Very delicate, actually. The blade's edge is got to be very maintained very carefully. Can't cut anything. Good hair and all this was new to me, but the mechanical side of it was really interesting. Just crazy, like a sword. And I gotta be taken care of. But I recognize that there was an intense value to this thing. Thio each hairdresser for sure. And I also didn't realise that it needed service. And I was like, Okay, there's a lot of opportunity in here because I know there's a hairdresser's everywhere and you do. All my life, I've just always had great friendships with hairdressers. Um, I was, like, felt drawn to them, and it was good. Like fashion. There's all energy. So, uh, so I was like, Okay, that's really interesting. And then Scott did the whole sell Sell me this pencil. How about I fucking nailed it for sure. So he offered me the job, and then it was like pay $1100 or go work for Scott Cox, which would have been an awesome video pressure. That's it would have been an interesting different path because I chose to pay a little more dollars for set of

spk_1:   1:14:02
shit. Are you fucking kidding me? No, my mom is right. What is past? You had an opportunity to get a car. A cellphone. Obviously didn't know Scott cocks back then.

spk_0:   1:14:11
No, I actually primate. A little bit too simple. I asked a lot of questions to Scott, and, um, Scott was nothing but honest. He told me everything, and I also knew one of the ghd reps. So I knew what I was gonna get paid and knew how many reps there were. And I knew what my sales goals were. Um, and math didn't work. I was like, Well, if all this is true and it's true for everybody in the company probably losing money each month Um, I also learned that the rest of the United States had just been handed over to distribution. I think the salon centric or one of the other ones. And so I was like, Okay, so where they got California, they got this many raps that I did the math, and I don't think this job is going to last for very long. That was also a big reason.

spk_1:   1:14:55
That's why around time Mailliez right was bought out.

spk_0:   1:14:57
Yes, I think so. But he was fast with that story About a year they fired everybody, and it was the end of a smart decision. You know, in retrospect, it was, um And then the scissor thing actually turned out to be really great. Was overcharged for the scissors for shit. I didn't know anybody at the time, So, um, but I then got back into my happy place Cold car, just walking into a place and being like,

spk_1:   1:15:23
high, serious. That's your happy place.

spk_0:   1:15:25
I fucking love it. It's It's hard. It is. And so they're So there's such a huge sense of accomplishment when you like, get it right and it becomes a dance. And when you get good at a hard dance, there's a lot of satisfaction in that. And so I It was tough. I'm in the first place I walked into and I was like, uh uh, is your boss here? Like, who are you? I let scary. I walked down. I just walked out. I was like, arm across out list. I will never be able to go back there. Um And then it was the moment I set my car on like, I fuck up my life Fucked up. My God, what

spk_1:   1:15:59
am I gonna do with my

spk_0:   1:16:00
life? I was like, actually, before I consider all that, let me walk into the next place. Okay? And then again, I the memory goes fuzzy. But it must have worked out because I ended up meeting something like 2000 hairdressers over the course of two or three years. You know, a lot of guys who did this sharpening were like these older guys and kind of kind of messy, little sloppy walking in there. And I was cleaned up, you know, being pleasant. You

spk_1:   1:16:22
a hand from

spk_0:   1:16:23
handsome, and I had a loner share for them and I take theirs. And I ended up using multiple sharpeners, so I'd have different tiered pricing, and it was it was new. And, ah, lot of the people who were doing really like inconsistent take. This is it would come back for two weeks. It's like, Hey, where'd you go? About 15.

spk_1:   1:16:39
So that's something that people do not know. Once you get to a level of success within the hair industry and you start making someone even before that these individuals have a lot of money for their scissors. Um, I mean, even people that you know, maybe aren't even that successful. They might still buy them, but people don't know that some shears costing or 1015 $100 when I'm cutting hair. And someone asked me, Not anymore, but like, Oh, how much for those? Couple under Bust Molino $1800. Do you really think an $1800 shear is worth $1800?

spk_0:   1:17:18
Really depends on the brand. There are some. Uh huh. Caray's were always awesome and very much worth the value. Mizutani always very expensive.

spk_1:   1:17:25
Are they made by hand? Each individual one someone more? Yeah, it

spk_0:   1:17:29
actually pounded out and made by an individual person, and each side's made in their body. It's like it's a process. And, you know, Mott Zaki was not only did I mean and I learned so much about shears, right, Um, and I gained this huge respect for the tool in the industry and the heritage. And it's a dying industry, too, because it's like a very like, hands on side thing, and a lot of people who do it are much older, and it's hard to pass it on. I wandered into it out of complete need, found a niche, was able to survive on it for years and made tons and tons of friends and contacts. So, uh, but to answer the question really directly, more often than not, people pay way too much for this year's that they have. That's especially if it's on some sort of payment plan. It's your it's

spk_1:   1:18:11
not naming any names. No people, but for sure, Absolutely. And it was smart business model, Right? Um, that being said, you know, I can just kind of here your passion when you're talking about the craft in the artisan of ah, you know, hammering it out and just kind of the way. It was kind of fun, Just kind of your eyes light up. Um,

spk_0:   1:18:32
I actually forgot how much I got into it.

spk_1:   1:18:34
Yeah, I

spk_0:   1:18:34
back then it was like survival for her. So I was like, I am going to know more about these, And I ended up giving education at places and was like, Who's not hairdresser? Interesting. I did find that most hairdressers did not understand their shares. Yes, there's a lot of technical words that that the manufacturers used to describe them. That the hairdresser. So there's a communication problem that I was able to cover that gap, which was helpful. But more often than not, they could not diagnose problems because there's no manual. It's not topping beauty school. You don't have to maintain it. So it's got the streets like, Oh, did you know that? You know, you just need to clean it. It's not

spk_1:   1:19:08
bad, you know, You kind of just said it with, Ah, you know, not super huge technical terms and broke it down to these individuals in a way that's easy to digest.

spk_0:   1:19:18
Interesting thing there, too. I often hear a lot of my friends who are in business say, Well, people are so stupid and they're very negative about the idea of that. But I really think it's important, Understand that very few people are actually stupid. Everybody's busy. Yes, and when you're busy, you kind of look stupid sometimes. So if you're busy being a crazy, good hairdresser and you're busy getting good at, you know, actually using the tool, maybe you don't have time to like really understand the nuances of the

spk_1:   1:19:44
guy, Should you?

spk_0:   1:19:45
Why should you? Isn't gonna provide much more. Guy just kind of got to be neurotic to get deep into and be like, What's this all about? Absolutely verse, You know, just focusing on the more enjoyable beside, probably of actually using the tool. So that lesson plays out nicely in all live happy going on stupid. You

spk_1:   1:20:02
know, you know, and I think a lot of people that say that Oh, people are so stupid. Maybe they're stupid themselves for even saying something like that. Because with human beings now, having what seven second attention span, why would even just like that? Because we're talking about hair. Why would they even want to care about those things when they could put their energy and time to something that's going to help them out and bring them more money, right when someone else can do it for that, right? It's just Ah, yeah. So you definitely made a great point. So you did that for what three years

spk_0:   1:20:32
feels like. You know, the reason that blurs is because as I built that distribution network of shares, it made so much sense to introduce brushes, combs and clips, which is how I met Robert because I had started to introduce Ergo into the different things I was selling.

spk_1:   1:20:49
Why don'tyou real quick people listening? Who is Robert and what is

spk_0:   1:20:53
so Robert is like a legend in the beauty industry. Super well respected, known by everybody. Robert Reed, Robert Reed and owns a company called Ergo, which makes the best hair brushes in the industry. Makes flat irons, crimp, er, blow dryers, Um, and in his history is, like,

spk_1:   1:21:13
amazing. He's gonna be on here on, like, the eighth. That'll be. Absolutely. I'm gonna dive deep into his earlier years. Well, fuck, yeah, I really hope he does open

spk_0:   1:21:21
now who probably pull the whole thing. I just did. Which is why can't

spk_1:   1:21:25
you know? I'll just tell him I'm not recording and I'll put it, you know, I want that back back. No, I'm just joking. Robert Reed is ah, huge mentor for both of us. You know, for me, transform my entire life and, you know, for you he's helped you out. A lot of

spk_0:   1:21:41
critical timing on we'll get to that for sure. So, yeah, so and then also the guy named Daniel Funk, who, I don't know. A lot of people know who he is, but definitely no the passion beauty books if they're in the beauty and through these huge books, If you ever walked into seven Salon, you see this book that's like, way too big, and it has these huge photos in it. So Daniel Funk and his wife did those books all through the eighties and nineties, and probably the two thousand's, too, is also one of the biggest importers of Japanese products. So through him I was how I met my like high grade sharpener. I would go through him for that, and ah, then I would also by cones and clips from a company called Wise Parks. They were really good stuff. And so best comes, man, right? So I was, you know, that's the thing. You get so funky because, uh, I ended up hiring a guy, and the the original Sharpener thought that I was his employees. But I was like building this empire on the side, where I like hired this guy who was working a different territory, and I was taking it to another sharpener, and I was like selling Combs, clips, brushes, cases, all this other stuff. And he just thought I was doing sharpening out there. And, you know, I don't feel bad for necessarily. It's just that we were moving at two different speeds. And, you know, I got this mentality Sometimes I can't be bothered with. If somebody else is being very slow and careful and I'm like, Okay, let's just go. Let's just figure it out. You know, the risks are there, Let's do it so and then that eventually actually looked a really emotional day when he found out and, ah, we sat in this coffee shop and he was not happy. And I

spk_1:   1:23:10
did that make you feel I

spk_0:   1:23:10
feel bad? Um, I felt bad because in my mind it was me pursuing my, um, my goal and pursuing like a better life for myself And there wasn't there was not a clear way to to make it a cohesive action, because there his wife was involved, and then he was involved in. There was there was a lot of like hang ups that I had as faras. The scissors were concerned in pain. $1100 for scissors that were worth, like 200 bucks, eh? So I had some misgivings already, and in freaking awesome, people like, really good, genuine nice people tear So And this is the world of humans in the world of business. And and sometimes I don't You know, we behave differently sometimes in different situations. So I was acting out of a lot of self interest and also desperation. I mean, I was I was Broca's hell and just trying to scrap together each day, you know, making rent and stuff like that. So looking for every opportunity to make more money and always thinking of what's best for the client to it is also the clients were like, Hey, because they liked me like they got to know me. And they're like, You're a good guy. You're really working hard. You're doing this stuff. Can you get this? Comes on like I can absolutely get those columns. And, uh, there's not a lot of margin incomes, so you don't necessarily bring that into, like, the entire operation. You just buy a comb and you still comb. So it was, um, that eventually led to a company called Beauty Fox. All right, that I started and beauty Fox was designed to be a technology platform. Um, you know what? It started off as building websites. I'd loved the design aspect of building websites, so we would build websites for salons and, ah, man, I went all in. I went all in and I didn't. And, you know, the company had morphed over time. It got me into that tech incubator that I mentioned earlier called Founder Institute, which was a guy named Steven Estes. Actually got me into the institute. Had met through friends. God, there's so many stories that I can't I can't tell you. There's just no time to tell you about

spk_1:   1:25:08
all of us would days for sure Gather some wild. So what we're doing is we're just doing bits and pieces kind of paint a picture of your life. You know, we don't have 15 out so

spk_0:   1:25:17
much. That s o Steven. Uh, calls in one day is like, Hey, man, I need youto take a look. This sinkhole I found just you gotta take this test and try and identify entrepreneurs that have a particular skill set or whatever and I'm like, this sounds perfect. Like I cannot be stopped like I'm just like a juggernaut As it relates entrepreneurship. I'll do anything. I work $100 a week. It doesn't matter. So I take this test, I get accepted. I actually went all the way through the program. People dropped out day one day, 15 people dropping out the entire time. Um, check this entire thing. People have way more experience than me. They're way smarter than I am. They're way better, Doctor Premiership. But I'm just like kids can stop me.

spk_1:   1:25:51
And that's the point, right? It's, uh you don't have to be the smartest person in the room. Exactly.

spk_0:   1:25:57
And ah, stupid haircut at the time. So they're all business people who fucking talk. Shit. It was a full hawk with a rat tail, and it was

spk_1:   1:26:04
so, dude, I was I cut your hair whole bunch of times that she looked dope.

spk_0:   1:26:08
It was it was all over the

spk_1:   1:26:09
right. Now it's, you know, whatever. But back then

spk_0:   1:26:12
it was all over the place. Horrible. At one point, it was all it was wild. But it was for me walking into a salon. That was credibility. Yeah. You walking into a roomful of legit billionaires who were like tech entrepreneurs and they were trying to teach this new set of entrepreneurs didn't any credibility. It was like, Who is this guy? Is he getting drinks? Why's he

spk_1:   1:26:30
here? Is he on drugs? And now you've had your whole life now. But these people were, like, 20 years your age, right?

spk_0:   1:26:36
Well, the people in the in the actual class, we're not, but obviously the people I mean 2030 40 years older on some instances exactly were amazing people like like the people you want to learn from that do not teach college classes. Like, tell you like this is actually how life works.

spk_1:   1:26:51
Real life experience. Do you think, though kind of one's a question? Do you think that when we become those individuals, uh, the way that you look is not really gonna matter? Because my mother's incredibly but even, you know, just think about it. 30 year olds getting tatted up, the way we dress the hair, it not the weight, not toe come in like a schlub. Right? But you can still have tattoos and look good.

spk_0:   1:27:15
Yes, but you you I mean, this is the human psychologist that I love so much is that we have eyes for a reason. Yes, in the eyes there since their their way of navigating the world. Right. So we also have heuristics that we used to make decisions. And so these heuristics air shortcuts for figuring out how to behave because you can't possibly dig into every situation. I understand you have tattoos. I have two, too. So does the murderer. Okay, cool. So there's three of us, right? Um, if you have tattoos and murderers had tattoos and convicts have tattoos, there's an association there that cannot be denied by the human brain,

spk_1:   1:27:52
even when rationally we can get there. Sure. And I believe we will.

spk_0:   1:27:57
God knows I'm not saying that I don't think tattoos.

spk_1:   1:27:59
No, I know that whatever you fucking want added

spk_0:   1:28:02
So much point is, though, in my understanding of my respect for ah, someone else's perspective is that they're going to have filters and heuristics that they have developed that have worked quite well for them, for sure. And I am subjected to those. And if I run through a filter and caught up in a shitty haircut or a tattoo that looks funny or whatever I have to accept that I I've been caught in a filter that that person has that been doing them quite well and I can make me mad at them for that. Not gonna. You know, this isn't fair. I'm in an individual, you know. Fuck you like That's such a silly ass way to respond, right? I should appreciate that I caught it or that they were clear enough with me so that I understand that I'm getting caught in this filter and then find a way to decide, you know, is what I want going to change my behavior, the teeter totter think

spk_1:   1:28:48
it is. It is that teeter totter. But I guess my point is, when the 30 year olds of this generation are 60 large portion of us in the United States of America will have tattoos.

spk_0:   1:29:00
So every situation is different, right? Yeah. So they're clearly always situations in which it works and clearly situations in which it doesn't. It's kind of like being well dressed. No one's ever going to be like that Well dressed fools, only it's being underdressed. That's the problem. You walk into a place in which people expect to be well dressed in your under dressed and then it's gonna It's gonna be a disservice to yourself trying to accomplish something. I don't think a tattoo. No, no, no. This is totally inaccurate. You walk into a certain environment, a throat tattoo was gonna give you credibility. Yeah, so it's again. It's all subjective, but, you know, and again all that stuff I really just put to the side and it's It's I respected. I understand it, and if it becomes observation, then I'll navigate it if I can. But for the most part, I think charisma and effectiveness and confidence all that is pretty much a trumpet.

spk_1:   1:29:45
100%. Do you think it's We'll hold on to kind of back step your time. I like the way you're looking the way you dress So when I walk into, you know kind of wherever and I've got my hoody on my vest and all that trip my jeans bandanna hanging on my left pocket Ah Hee and I walk in Ah, large portion of people that are all there are going to look at me a certain way or judge me. But if I walk into that same place? Um, the way I do at events with the, you know, suit jacket, fucking looking sharp. Even with my tattoos. Those people look at me not like they did if I was dressed, you know, normally, yes, and I do see kind of this evolution happening where tattoos are becoming less and less of an issue. So I guess I'm just wondering if one day, uh, not not a fucking face tattoo, but, you know, just tattoos like I have it's not going to be looked at. Ah, you know, the way that it has for a long time.

spk_0:   1:30:41
I think it's already changing. Yeah, probably continue to change. Um, who knows, though, you know, style changes, but you're right. I mean, the more people get tattoo, the more becomes a socially acceptable thing. And there is this. Also, this funny thing is that sometimes a successful person with tattoos gets this little glow. Yeah, because it's like they're successful with tattoos. They must be a murderer, like they are not not Jim murder. They must be like a really intelligent, effective person able to overcome the

spk_1:   1:31:08
tattoo for sure, Absolutely. Even for me, at the level that that I'm at, and it's not anywhere near where I I envisioned myself being, um I'm like shit. You know, even when my tattoos, the way that people will perceive me, I'm like, Okay, I'm like, you know, getting it, and it feels good. All right. So I can only imagine the motherfucker that, uh, you know, he's got that Fuck you money kicking ass. He's all tatted up. It does it kind of like, you know, fuck all of you. I did it my way. Um all right, so So, getting to it, right? Yeah. Uh, beauty Fox, the beginning. What was kind of the thought process behind

spk_0:   1:31:44
it. So the idea was to build websites for a monthly rate because they were being charged these enormous amounts to, like, you know, 8 $800 or $2000 to build a website. Yeah, which was, uh, you know, for a lot of salons, ITT's NOTT, it couldn't spend money on that. So we had built a platform that allowed us to do, uh, much simpler websites that were kind of formatted in a way that was, like, consistently good. We were tracking, like which which one's performed and then we would modify everybody's design. But it was an interesting idea what it was actually leading towards though the big picture. The long, long view for this was that I wanted to actually make all the websites free. Really? Yeah. And then I wanted to build online stores and sell products from the salon's Web sites. That was like the big picture, the big vision that we never We couldn't get to a level of revenue that allowed us to actually develop. And, uh, I didn't want to go there out of fundraiser. I had partners at two partners Victor Victor Valle Verde and Nico April, who are awesome. How did Nico was like, not how winner for, like, 45 amazing, super talented director is also in his own, right? Crazy, Awesome. In the beauty is, you know? Yes, of

spk_1:   1:32:51
course. What, are you joking?

spk_0:   1:32:53
I don't know. I think he's a friend. So I'm like, I'm not sure I feel like I really knows him, but

spk_1:   1:32:57
Absa? Absolutely. Um So how the heck did you team up with them?

spk_0:   1:33:03
So when I was doing this is a sharpening stuff. I like a legit network of people because again. Everybody else was like disappearing, doing shitty work, groaning cheers. And I was like, I could look at a pair of shears and be like x y z did your shares. It looks like they probably him two weeks ago. No way. Look at this edge. They shape this edge up a little too much. Whoa! Okay, dude, you can take this year's and I'd be like, Are these in the meantime? And that's often how I would sell this shit would come back like, these are awesome all you want, but I'm aiways um So doing that I was able to go pretty quick reputation and so that parlayed into everything else. And when I just told me Nico Victor What? I want to work on front of cash to get it started and ah, yeah, the idea that I originally ruled out with was actually a 1 800 Dennis for for ah, hairdressers. We had this platform that was gonna match people. So let me back up, because I'll tell you what it was 100 dinners for hairdressers than it was building websites. And then the websites were gonna more friend online stores, so Okay, Let's go back to the hardest. Because actually, general interest things happen there. Um, so that's what Nico and Vic could actually funded to build the technology to match people. And we were matching him on all these different criteria is not just on locations, but styles. And you know everything else. Um, I I learned a lot about developing in a silo or developing in an echo chamber and not listening to the audience and not building with your audience. It's really important that if you're building a product, you're building it while listening at the same time with some caveats you don't. For example, you don't want to spend a year building something and then be like, Hey, you like this And there was like and I'm not really That would be shitty, because then you're like, What the fuck did you finish here? Um, but what I was doing, in the meantime of building it while the developers were building it, I was going in, signing people up. So I'm like hot dog sales guy, I signing up everybody. Nobody's saying that was like a poor credit cards down. I got always get everybody's information so that as soon as we're ready to launch, I can feel it. All the profiles with all the content that I've been collecting and I got all the credit cards and I cannot build anybody until we get started. There's a chicken and egg problem when you're in a marketplace, which is you gotta have one side of the market before you can get the other. Okay. And so my, my, I knew that the hairdresser's, as long as I wasn't building them, would stay consistent. And then I can find a way to get the market built on the other side. Because if you bring in the consumers and there's no hairdressers and you can't use that, you've got to build a headdress aside first. So add it up, and I was gonna operate just in a local environment. Whatever. Okay, So here's an interesting story, though, Is that I'm getting Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Everybody's saying yes when I walk into butterfly loft on. I'm like hot. Yeah,

spk_1:   1:35:38
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

spk_0:   1:35:40
Check it out. I sit down with David Thurston and I sit down with, uh, Jessica. Okay, Believe was the manager maybe. Or is assistant or the reception. She's one of the three awesome awesome person. Um, I go through the whole pitch, nods and yeses and I cool. Cool, cool, cool. And then he's, like, not interested. No way. I'm like, uh What do you mean? It just it just not interest. Not right for us. He was really confident. Really cool about it. But I wasn't. Of course. And I was like, No, no, no. You're sure I'm not leaving until you tell me exactly what you're not doing this so I can get better Michael to say no Love that. God. Tell me why wouldn't tell me why. It just wasn't right. So I just was right for us. It's just not it's just not for us. And I was thinking like, Fuck this

spk_1:   1:36:25
guy. I think I was so pissed can understand

spk_0:   1:36:28
because also, my confidence was, like, at an all time high. And then it was just ran into a brick wall with who I perceived as being like the account to get so, uh, absolutely devastated. I leave and I go find my favorite Mediterranean place. So I can like silk, my wounds, my favorite food

spk_1:   1:36:47
with your paws and all that on.

spk_0:   1:36:51
Then he text me You said something to the effect of keep your head up your awesome you know, keep. And I'm like

spk_1:   1:36:58
what I've saw confused so crazy, Like, how could you be

spk_0:   1:37:02
so supportive? Because, like, you know, when someone says no, it's usually know And please get the fuck out of here. I'm busy. But he said no, but keep going. You're awesome. That's awesome. I was so blown away by

spk_1:   1:37:12
I like that, Yeah, I had a huge

spk_0:   1:37:14
impact on me. So any was continuing through with beauty. Fox didn't work out, and then I took it to the extreme. I sold all my stuff. I lived in my car. I lived in a closet back to the days

spk_1:   1:37:28
of black closet, like living in the club

spk_0:   1:37:30
2020 Story saw in this time there was a period of time where I was living at a place called the Orsini. You know, this place is not a Nietzschean. The order's senior make a sound. I'll figure out what it was like roaming gangs inside. It was awful. It was a horrible, horrible place to live, but it was built as if it was like old school in a

spk_1:   1:37:48
way, you felt at home?

spk_0:   1:37:49
No, it was, uh, so I had been living in my car, and then Ah, amazing girl named Briana was like Brianna. Brianna. Sorry. Fresh, fresh. But she was so kind to let me stay with her. But there were seven other girls staying with her. So it was Tyler and eight women living in a fucking two bedroom or a senior partner. Siri's. And that was like, I was I was actually made it in the legal situation because normally would be legal to have eight people living in that I was like the maxi could d'oh two bedrooms or whatever. Um but the whole place was just I'm serious roaming gangs in the hallways. And it was at the basketball court. It was fancy s place I was managing. It looks crazy. So anyways, that

spk_1:   1:38:36
hold the hold on because I do want to stop you going back to living in your car keys? I've lived in my car before. What did you feel? How did you feel inside?

spk_0:   1:38:50
Didn't navigate? I didn't put emotions and you didn't know it was all optimism. It was all for a reason. It was all for a purpose

spk_1:   1:38:57
that at that time you were in, like, Bok Man. Pure optimism. And how long were you in your car? For

spk_0:   1:39:02
it? Well, so it wasn't like I like on Lee lived in my car was like here where there was a night or two. Yet it's been in your car, and sometimes it was just easier to park in front of a salon and be there in the morning that it was toe navigate l A traffic and stay with your friend. And then you start to feel bad for avian. Like it can't pay your room couch again. Um, so that was quite a while. For 89 months. I was for a lot of time. Parents didn't know what either. Of course, uh, S o. So he was Orsini was eight chicks on? Uh, that's the thing, right? Guys? Like, Oh, hey, we're gonna have a row, dude. No, not even close. It was read at night near Yeah, uh, I was, like, just observing pure chaos all the time because he's a Girls didn't know each other either. They were all in leg

spk_1:   1:39:48
right there. We're all home

spk_0:   1:39:49
No. They were all weird situations where they need it

spk_1:   1:39:51
was almost like a hostel. Where the fuck were people sleeping,

spk_0:   1:39:54
like in the room I was in? It was me and four chicks. Like several beds. Like I saw in the bathtub when he was just It was all chaos, chaos. It was there

spk_1:   1:40:02
a lot of fun times? No, no. It was pure chaos all the

spk_0:   1:40:05
time. Like I barely ever remember being fully comfortable. But a day came when? Well, actually, I think the first night I was there Ah, I had everything in my car. Okay? Dumb ass parked under a bridge. Thing was, this would be like the second of like, like, five times I've been robbed in L. A. Okay. In the fifth time, the police said, sir, you're what we call a soft target.

spk_1:   1:40:29
Your dumb ass need to You need to

spk_0:   1:40:32
really consider security a little bit more. And even with Pope, I had my window bashed up, my laptop stolen. It was just It's not stuff. It's not fun to just happens now. I, um my whole car got still got stories for days.

spk_1:   1:40:46
Oh, yeah, it was it. The Lexus I remember you

spk_0:   1:40:49
broke in the house, stole a bunch

spk_1:   1:40:50
of Should I call the car? Took your dog, remember?

spk_0:   1:40:56
But anyways, that was the thing that was the first or second I was It was the worst because I still had all of my possessions that were of value. I have my Mac, like my full Mac Mac book. Um, all my clothes and all my documents. I'm walking down in the car that morning, see my windshield on my side glass busted out from a ways away and I see, like, all my clothes in the street, my mother fuckers.

spk_1:   1:41:19
So how did you feel? Broken So that broken completely broke. I don't understand that.

spk_0:   1:41:23
I was seeing I was kind of quasi eyes seeing a girl at the time, and, ah, but it wasn't really working out because obviously, the situation was all messed up. And I remember telling her, Hey, life just got really difficult and ah, but when I have life by the balls, I'm gonna take you to the best intern ever. Sweet. Last year I took her to like, the fucking craziest dinner ever. You did. It wasn't even a romantic thing anymore. It was a

spk_1:   1:41:48
promise that you made

spk_0:   1:41:49
that kept going. And it was deep. Good job, man. That was awesome. Dinner? Um, yeah. So it was good. It was just a great connection with a friend. So? So All

spk_1:   1:42:00
right, so So you got your car broken into your fucked How did you like liqueur? Pause and get back together? Because Did you have insurance? At least gave you money?

spk_0:   1:42:07
No, no, no. I took the police in there like that. We can't make parts under an overpass while you park of any passing. My weight. Your conscience didn't take care of it. I don't know if I had car insurance, man. Health insurance for, like, years and years and years. I was I was about as homeless as you could be without being, like, literally working on a story like 28. It was getting in my twenties. I was actually 27. 20. Maybe around then. So this was about the time where I took two weeks off from L. A. When I was, like, busted and I was like that. I got to come home. I got to just get myself together, went home just chilled for two weeks in Memphis where they were living at the time. Okay, Dad's perfect. So we kind of put me back together that he's like, we got you. You're totally fine. Like we believe in you. Like this. Next year, you're gonna get it, guys. Fucking perfect. I love my dad so much. So So then, after two weeks of being in Memphis, I was ready to come back to l. A. And I kind of get the It's a little fuzzy of when it all happened, but around the same time, my friend Dustin was moving to Los Angeles from Omaha. Okay, Who I had known for, I mean, a very long So I had a lot of really fun times with him when I lived in Omaha in the early twenties and ah, he plays in a band. Uh, he believed his graphic artist for a while. A really great guy. Nice. So, uh, so he was moving l a But then also, my friend Chris shed wascause by Ken, um, who was a great friend growing up, too. And he was Ah, he's from Tajikistan.

spk_1:   1:43:33
And he's moving to L. A.

spk_0:   1:43:34
And he's moving out at the same time. So all three of us were like, Let's let's make this actually no dust and move first. And him and I lived in Hollywood together. Okay, on That's where a lot of fun Hollywood stories are from two and then, uh, can decides he's gonna move out to to live with us. And so then it's like all of the guys from Harvard, like Korea Town. Yeah. And then around that time, I started throwing art shows okay for a company called Raw Artists. Because my friend Kyla had got me the job because after beauty, Fox had kind of imploded, and I was like, This isn't this isn't gonna work out. Um uh, Kyla And who's a big part of my life? Really Awesome girl. She's in a band. Wasn't a band at the time. Um, now throws these huge trick. She's just she's just a lot of different things. Like probably she's an influencer is the best way to call it now. Okay, Uh, and then in another friend named Kiki or Kristen, they were all in this band called nylon pink. And so I became really good friends with him. Yeah, and they were like sisters to me. And so, uh, we've very much have navigated the last 10 years together in different ways. I even went on tour with, um I have Oh, seriously? Yeah. Where I was like the band merch guy that the I guess the guy who got payment from the bars. Ah, drove the van. It was a crazy couple. Of

spk_1:   1:44:52
how long

spk_0:   1:44:53
I think we did it for a week and 1/2 2 weeks. Ohio. We did this weird little loop de loop through Ohio.

spk_1:   1:44:58
Must've been exciting. Yeah,

spk_0:   1:45:00
there was a great tornado. Uh, story. Who had an awesome guy who named Mickey That was the tour manager.

spk_1:   1:45:07
That still that's so fucking cobra. I'm gonna bring this back, because when you're kind of at your like, your lowest ur gets broken into everything all of a sudden, something happens. You have two friends moving into town. Isn't that what happens? It picks you up?

spk_0:   1:45:25
Yeah, that was like that was that That was part of the turning. Yeah, because then Dustin and I started working together, all artists. And now suddenly I had community again. Yes, I wasn't all alone. And so then dusted and I worked side by side every day, Uh, throwing these huge art shows. We eventually we're managing multiples locations. And he was much better than I was because he was way more organized. But as a team, we were great because I love doing the phone calls with the artists from an organization standpoint. But again, it kind of made me detest feeling days a corn because

spk_1:   1:45:57
he task cling because

spk_0:   1:45:58
we have to set up all of these. These fences are to hang on. Uh, but we were like him, and I were like, moving these fences through these venues were throwing downtown at a place. What's the place? The Aztec looking place Fox. If I now? Yeah, that's some crazy looking place downtown we called the Aztec. Actually, there was place in Orange County way. We have to drag these massive fences from this truck up these flights of stairs, set it up, and always put their stuff on with the show them into dragon. Maybe like four in the morning. And I'd be like dragging a fence like through an alley, loading up a truck.

spk_1:   1:46:29
We'll see your corn husk in days and detach. And wherever the fuck you call d tassel ing? Uh, you know, kind of played a role. Yeah, just kind of fucking pushing it grind and doing what you have to do. And so you've kind of had a lot of these moments throughout your life. And, um, you know, something that happens to a lot of people that are successful is that they don't stay in one place for a long time. They kind of, you know, go from here to here to here and getting all of these experiences. But what's happening is it's going up and up and sometimes down, but still up and up from that macro level. So you're doing this artist experience where you kind of detached from the hair industry. At that point, I

spk_0:   1:47:10
was I feel like it's so all Mexican. I've always been the person that's been doing multiple things. So I was still actually doing scissors. Sharp man, believe wow. I think I had gone back to that after beauty Fox thing had fallen through because I built up such an account based people were like, Can you please come get these? Like, I have nobody to go to. So I was still picking up business on a regular basis for that, Um, but but raw had Rogers had really taken over and being the main source of income in my time, um, but definitely still involved in beauty. Like I think I was. I feel like I was at trade shows. It's all very fuzzy.

spk_1:   1:47:47
So were you when beauty fox kind of, you know, went under lender. Were you ashamed? Upset? How did you feel?

spk_0:   1:47:53
You made a big mistake with that company. I tied my identity to it in a major way source for Yeah, When it failed, I failed. And that was harsh. Of course. I was very destructive to like, ego. Um, and you go protect you from a lot of feelings. And a lot of, um it was damaging for sure. And I had to build myself back up. Um, and it took a while, and it definitely took a while to do that. And, you know, Raul was great experience because Heidi Laura Laura of property on her name, Wrong is the is the founder. And she's like the most awesome woman, so, so powerful, like such a such a great person. And she's built a crazy thing with their artists. So fucking cool working under someone who was strong like that. You do start to rebuild your confidence.

spk_1:   1:48:40
Yes, you do. Because she

spk_0:   1:48:41
built a system and I knew how to execute in the system. So it became that thing again. Where I was like, Okay, nailed it, nailed it, nailed it, nailed it, nailed. OK, ok, I'm really good at things. Actually, this school I'm not good with systems. Um, I don't prefer to follow somebody else's systems. I want to build my own, but then I don't want to manage it.

spk_1:   1:48:59
Get that? Yeah, I know. I know exactly

spk_0:   1:49:01
what time it was. Good for me to have a pattern and consistency

spk_1:   1:49:04
kind of build you back up for sure. It's like small wind, small wind, small in, And that that just feels good for your spirit, your ego, all of that s So you're doing your artists was the next step. Ergo,

spk_0:   1:49:15
it was all right. So, like, kind of brings the artist was ah Thanh of work, but it didn't really have a future to it because it was basically you could be a director, be a director and I didn't see the future for me, necessarily. I feel like it was a limited path. And then there was a day that I reached out to Robert and I don't remember how it all started. I mean, it was still he's still need me through selling the irons in the past and selling some of the brushes and stuff. So one way or another actual started working for Robert, and it eventually became full time. Okay, um, and again now I'm working under someone who's even more like powerful and so much experience has so much experience. But industry for so long, so many systems, so much an understanding of how things work, such an understanding of how people work in a way of communicating. And I was just soaking it all.

spk_1:   1:50:03
He's so good at that. You know, you really networking and just people in general. And he has this philosophy or this kind of saying, not philosophy. It's PPP, PPP. Prior planning prevents piss, poor performance, and, uh, you know, that's kind of like everything that he does in his life is that he's got the systems. He's great with people. He'll share anything with you as far as his knowledge. And I do remember you coming on. I was I was excited. You know, I've known you for a while, but then once you came on, it really allowed us to connect. And that's where our friendship for

spk_0:   1:50:36
getting the path of everything. But I knew control at the same time you'd West and they were doing here house together, and I'd met Carlos New Carlos. Uh, so there was the other was Pathan. There's somewhere new kind of blender. Sure, it

spk_1:   1:50:49
kind of just comes. And then So you hop on, Argo. Um, you've had, you know, kind of these ups, these downs beauty Fox fell down. But that's all right, because then you went to rock artists, and then that kind of lead you back to earth, not back and lead you back to the hair industry on Ben. So you're at Ergo, you know, what was that like for you

spk_0:   1:51:07
to school? Because I was I was meeting a lot of people because I felt that what I had done before was a very local thing. Was very Los Angeles locals. So I knew the hair industry as it was in Los Angeles, but I didn't know the greater hair industry. I didn't go on the tour circuit for the trade shows and stuff like that. It's working with Robert. I got a much bigger impression of what was going on. And also, everybody knew Robert too. So that was great to kind of be introduced to a lot of people at these different shows and, um, interacting with salon owners that were like like a vato salon owners who are, like, some of the best in the country. So, having all those again a broader network in a broader set of relationships being built from that, um was really powerful. But the best thing was actually working for Robert because he's so smart, so organized. And there were so many skills that I don't take them for granted in any way whatsoever. But, like, I know where they come from, for sure they actually come from Robert. I gotta pick them

spk_1:   1:52:00
all up 100%. You know, I I I kind of owe to people in my life. I wouldn't be the person that I am today. Robert and Melissa. Yeah. I mean, they're very structured and organized when I am definitely not, but you know, as you get older and as you've kind of been in that system for a long time, you start to pick up those things. Um, and just a lot of the things that that I do. If I look back on the equipment, I learned that from Robert, from Robert, from Robert. I think it's

spk_0:   1:52:28
important to remember to see continue to be grateful to those people. Absolutely, and give back, like without measurement, either without, like, keeping score.

spk_1:   1:52:35
Oh, for sure, for sure it's important, you know, being a mentor of someone you know, the greatest thing. It's kind of like a parent seeing that individual blossom. And for Robert, you know, especially for you, man, You took that step, You left argo and

spk_0:   1:52:49
stuff. Yeah, the road diverged. We tried. We in many ways tried to make it work, and there was a difference of opinion and, you know, it wasn't too different from before When I was I wanted more, of course, and I was willing to do more. And ah, we saw different. You know, it was there's multiple people making decisions, and so it was seen differently. And what was also another skits into the pope's stuff, which are the pope story of how it began was that, um, we went to the class, right? A class, Yeah, Butterfly Law. And you taught a class and ah, I talked to David again. Yeah, And so David obviously remembered my intensity. Yes, he does. Maybe desire for success and willingness toward our funny right. Hey, said something to me. Um, either then wasn't. Then it was said some later point. He said, Throughout, You know you're working career. You'll meet people, and you have these people will stand out and you'll say, Look at some point, even not if it's not now, there'll be a point in which I want to work with this person. Can I just put put a pin in it? Remember these people I saw, he said. That's how he remembered me as somebody who at some point in the future, that would likely be an opportunity where we could work together.

spk_1:   1:54:02
That's so funny. Made that because you were so Tauron at that one point when he said no to you. Oh, so in retrospect, though, it's kind of funny. I don't think

spk_0:   1:54:09
I even talk to them against since that was probably one time. And then I talked to

spk_1:   1:54:13
block that hurt. Then look, what happens.

spk_0:   1:54:16
So So, uh, okay. I'll tell the story. Tell it. Okay, so then David mentions roughly what he's working on. Yeah. Color line. I get the idea that human Alexis have been developing a color line. And so I knew that he had been doing Butterfly Circus. So everyone in their industry did, right? Yes. It kind of analyzing that. Am I. Okay. Great base, this is This is good rocket ship. And so I was like, I have to find a way to make this relationship work. I want to be a part of this, but there was no explicit off or anything like that. But David had been listening or reading to some author at the time, and ah, I didn't know who it waas. He mentioned it during the conversation. So after the conversation, I go google this person, figure out who they are as real big in the freelancers at the time. Okay, So I hired a freelancer and I said, hey, okay. I'll give you whatever Charlie Rader's research This author find me something of interest

spk_1:   1:55:13
shut the fuck up. 10 Sir, I had no idea about this. Got to do. This is great.

spk_0:   1:55:18
This, uh, this girl, somehow she's like an Internet researcher from the Philippines. Finds us like, 256 light deck that this guy had put online under a different name. It was like his his secret deck of information that he used to do pictures and stuff like it was, like, legit. I was

spk_1:   1:55:36
like, How did you find this? This is insane. What, did you feel like you? Yeah.

spk_0:   1:55:41
And so I message David really casual and said something to the effect of headed some research on this guy, and, uh, he was I think he was impressed because there was follow up and then obviously had gone the extra mile. I found something really interesting that, like, how did the hell did you find this?

spk_1:   1:55:55
And you remember the author? It was just Yeah, I got that

spk_0:   1:55:58
really showed interest initiative and everything else. Also, I was like on it, like sense of urgency was over the top, too, because I was like, there's there's a guy out in your hair. Um, and then we had a few more meetings and conversations and clearly work. We're connecting on on working together. Yeah. So then there was an offer, and I went back to her go because I had, like, this extreme streak of loyalty, because Robert had done so much. And I mean, this is even hard to talk about. But I remember saying, you know, like, this is the offer that I have to go join Pope. I want this to work out between us. This is like, you know, let me stay, like, how do we do this? And we just remember when we got heated and, uh, I walked away and I joined Pope, and that was a crazy rocket

spk_1:   1:56:46
ship for before you did that. You know, getting into that and leaving when you left. Um, were you, like, angry? Hurt, like what was going on? A test Super poser. Pissed, huh? Isn't that crazy, though? It's like at that moment you were you were upset. But now you and Robert meant today and for sure, none of that.

spk_0:   1:57:03
Because him and I are one and the same as Faras. I think mentally and physically and emotionally like

spk_1:   1:57:10
ah, 100%.

spk_0:   1:57:11
There's no room for anger.

spk_1:   1:57:12
No, no. You and Robert are very similar, and in a lot of ways it's That's kind of funny.

spk_0:   1:57:18
It's, you know, there's also there's no room for for anger and resentment. You know, all that stuff,

spk_1:   1:57:27
get the emotions out of it and both the only,

spk_0:   1:57:29
but also not even need to get all emotions out. But it's because those emotions it's like, uh, was great saying, It's like when you seek vengeance, dig a grave for two. Yeah, because there's nothing good is gonna come from being angry at someone for a long period of time. I actually no,

spk_1:   1:57:43
I would love that. I love that because that's something I followed for a long time. I'm can easily forgive. I'll get very upset, like I will get super fucking pissed atyou. And then the very next day I'm fine, right?

spk_0:   1:57:55
I'm like that. Now, where you like that? When you were young?

spk_1:   1:57:58
Um, I feel No, I wasn't. Because I remember one time there was this incident between my girlfriend and this girl and her boyfriend got into it, and and I was fucking pissed, and I held onto that for, like, a year. Oh, my God a year, and I beat the shit out of him. And I remember years later I apologize because I felt bad. And I think at that point, um, I was like, Do you like what the fuck? Right? Right. What was the point?

spk_0:   1:58:25
Pursued a guy for over a year to eventually had a fight with them. It was Ah, funny. Vengeance was like in the blood. Yeah, because there was a purpose. Yeah, and it gave me, like, a dry exact Like an energy that I liked was addicted to, like this feeling of, like, purpose. Absolutely. Get that other places, of course. So the negativity it eats,

spk_1:   1:58:46
there's just no reason. Right? And less like someone does something super fucking terrible like some of your families. And there's a madman, Ugo and all go. You know, for me, I have limitations, right? If you like, murdered my sisters, I'm like that with them. But then eventually, probably right, because I do see people that these things happen. Then eventually you have to let go, right? But anger is poisoned. It is, but but mostly everything for me, honestly speaking is like I can get over. Yeah, Sam

spk_0:   1:59:14
same. So So of course I was gonna get over it, but I was resentful and angry for a minute, for sure. But, you know, and I think that in the end, Robert is probably grateful and happy, as am I, that things turned out the way that they did.

spk_1:   1:59:26
He's proud of you, I'm sure. You know, we talked about it. Yeah, it's probably for sure. Absolutely. So you left and then was next.

spk_0:   1:59:33
And so, uh, so I think we were I actually I worked for both companies for a period of time because I wanted to do the transition properly. So I work for Robert and worked with David for a while at the same time. It just became clear pretty quickly that Pope was going to be all consuming. I was so happy that I knew there was gonna be It was gonna be crazy. I just I just felt that energy was building

spk_1:   1:59:58
at that point. Did you feel like OK, I'm onto something here, Like I it feels right. I feel good. Like, what

spk_0:   2:0:05
was almost not enough time t even doubt what was about to happen. Yeah, and ah, And also like e can't say enough good things about David off. Fuck, yeah. So brilliant. Yeah, I don't I'm very careful with words as faras when describing someone's capabilities intelligence or some like that guy just has, like, a wild instinct that is so far beyond my understanding. Like, for I kind of think I get where it comes from, you know, owning a salon like butterfly loft. Um, having Alexis is a wife who is behind the chair and is like, incredibly perceptive stylist on super talented. Those that instinct, not understanding of an industry cannot be replaced. And so it's often that I run into people who are real young who want to be entrepreneurs like I always tell them, like, do whatever you're gonna d'oh, do it with all your like strength and go in. It's full speed, but let me just give you a piece of advice. Try to find somebody who is in an industry, has been in that industry for 10 plus years, has had an interesting level of success, is about to do something big and then latch on like crazy. That is the best, I think identify air for a potential success. They have the network. They have the instinct, and they likely have. The resource is so that, I think, is exact description for Popes setting them up because also, you had butterfly loft, which was Ah ah, precursor to it. And there was already success with that. And so there was a network of influencers on educators. I think it's much better word for that, Um, who are already on board too. So awareness is often the hardest thing for sure comes to launching a product. And so when you have some of the biggest educators in the industry who are the fastest up incoming ones, clearly that awareness is gonna happen

spk_1:   2:1:54
was that there was that the what set pope right apart from everyone else. Because Paul right, people, that's it.

spk_0:   2:2:02
No, I mean, well, okay, people. But then that leads to so many other things when you have someone like Alexis. Was a person yes. Developing a product. Okay, it's a person thing, but it's also now you got a product development thing. So Alexis develops like the next level of hair color as it related to the direct eyes. Um, I couldn't appreciate that at the time. I couldn't appreciate it for so many reasons. They did that development before I joined them. So I didn't see that year of development. Um, and then I also didn't have an appreciation for how good it was because I'm not a hairdresser. So I on faith, basically was believing that this is a great product because they were successful in talented in their own right. And I could see that clearly. So I was like, Okay, they probably a great product. Um, interesting. And I'll tie that just a little bit to the to the future story of Jupiter, which is in my own experience of building a product or last eight or nine months. Got a deep appreciation for Alexis ability to build so many products in the last three years. And all of them are amazing. And there, and I have developed one product that is amazing. But all my cash was it freaking. It's like every single person you talked to says No, that can't be done. No, that can't be. I know that can't be done. No, that can't be done. And you have to just kind of bulldoze over every single one of them and eventually get to someone who says, Yeah, it's gonna be hard, but I have an idea for how it may work, and you look okay. But

spk_1:   2:3:30
stardom, that is that's so funny. Because at the time and said once again, like when we're going through things, we can't appreciate it or we could We always can't appreciate it. But now, looking back the appreciation level for Alexis and what she was able to accomplish and things that she was able to do in the products, because now you're going through it, right? It's just these things kind of keep on time together for you. So you're out. Pulp, right? You're on this fucking rocket ship. It's taking off. At what point? You know, because you were there first, Like, three years. Two and 1/2 years?

spk_0:   2:3:58
Uh, no. One and 1/2.

spk_1:   2:4:01
One and 1/2.

spk_0:   2:4:01
He was crazy was so fast.

spk_1:   2:4:03
So from the time you started to the time that you left a year and 1/2 what the fuck happened? Because launched,

spk_0:   2:4:10
like, 30 countries, it was over 10 $11 million in the first year in sales training rapidly towards 30 in the second. Um, it was it was just it couldn't have been done better. I mean, sure, we made a lot of mistakes. Actually, that's one of the secrets is that we were moving so damn fast and we were making those mistakes. But we were moving too fast from the sticks to have any damage. Um, that was a powerful lesson, you know, cos air much like people and they have superpowers in the sense and pulp had the most amazing people. That was that was what made pope. And that is what Pope is even today. It's the people. It's the community, It's the artists. The products are amazing. They have to be. But there's But when you make an amazing products, you get to exist as a company. If you make a subpar product, your basic going to be struggling to exist in your whole life is focused on getting people to buy the product. Yes, but when you spend the time to make something truly amazing, it falls a little bit in my opinion, to the background and the people then take the forefront and it becomes, you know, what is the community? What is the culture of this product and these people on the product just absolutely performs. You know, people don't spend all day building a relationship with the product they spend in there with

spk_1:   2:5:30
the people, the people with the people. I'm gonna take that advice and put that towards my podcast because, you know, as I'm growing and taking this off, um, it does. It comes down to the people and the people that I bring on here, Uh, the community that I build, Um, and it's just so fascinating. In a year and a half's time you started, you guys sold. And now what happened? Like because, you know, you you guys dress sold like what? What happened? Where you lost three confuse. Were you fucking stoked?

spk_0:   2:6:02
It was Ah, it was exciting. Um, in the timing at the time, I didn't want to sell. I, um I don't think anybody wanted to. I think it was the right decision, though, And I think it was that pope was moving so fast and growing so quickly that we were going to hit a point in which we were gonna be on a way we wouldn't have had the necessary resource is, or relationships or connections to sustain what we were about to do, which was to release a permanent color line. So I think at the time I was being optimistic as I was am an aggressive because I was like, Oh, we're winning. I missed this feeling, like, Let's do this. But David, having a better sense than I did of the big picture, understood that the recess resource is that Laurie I would bring to the table would allow us to actually continue to exist in a way that was actually gonna support the community in the industry for sure. So it was technically the right decision that I didn't appreciate until probably after the fact

spk_1:   2:7:00
and so funny. I always like how you are. Maybe in the moment you don't see it, but you always tend to see it afterwards. Now that's fantastic, because there's a lot of people that don't see it in the moment, and then they don't see it afterwards. So at least if you concede e what is exactly happening? Look back, kind of humble yourself. It's It's a beautiful thing.

spk_0:   2:7:20
Yeah, I was given that the time to do that Well, in Cambridge, which was, you know, an interesting decision, too. So when Pope sold, Yeah, um, and it was clear, I think to me and probably to the rest of the team, that it wasn't it an environment that was right for me. Um, it was a very, you know, becomes more political. You got more people, you have more responsibilities. There's more channels of communication. There's really deep levels of planning. And, I mean, I just love chaos and excitement. And I went I went, you know, I want my I want to be doing something. I want my hands to be on something and building something and have this excitement. And it was such a harsh transition from, you know, pull too loyal for me because the reality changed so much. Um, I gotta say like I freaking love the people so much. It was so hard to leave, but it was, I think, the right thing to do. Um, maybe I should have stayed a little bit longer. I could have picked up a lot of lessons and interesting things from Loreal. I think I'm so proud of split just a little bit too early. But hey, that's my thing, right?

spk_1:   2:8:28
But that is that is your thing, you know. But you know, at this point now, you know, you've spent, like, a decade in Los Angeles. You've had so many ups and downs and, um, you know, kind of little winds and then failures. And, you know, with beauty fox coat closing down that had to be fucked up than everything getting stolen, your friends coming out, taking you back up. You go into rock artists than Ergo, which was kind of like, OK, this is looking back. There's like, that Is the the moment in your life worth things finally

spk_0:   2:9:01
started burning stability that I could actually stand, like, on solid ground and start to actually get my re orientated to see an opportunity MP position for an opportunity, like put right

spk_1:   2:9:12
and then pope riot did change your life. 100% changed your life. It now, after you sold because you didn't ice off of that. Um, what was the step? Okay, I'm gonna move to fucking Boston.

spk_0:   2:9:25
So when selling, uh, you you know, you're basically you're giving up your ownership in the company, and in exchange for that, there's a payment. And then there's also an expectation that you won't compete on and you won't go, you know, join another company that's competing or do anything like that. So you signed a contract that basically says, you know, have a nice year and

spk_1:   2:9:50
1/2 away. Go do something. A nice break. But here's a nice check. Sure.

spk_0:   2:9:53
Exactly. That's exactly did this. So, um,

spk_1:   2:9:56
I do want to stop you right when you got your payout, right? Just just, um there are moments in life where we can look back. Did you feel accomplished? Were you happy? Like Okay, I fucking did it. But now I got to get to the next step. That

spk_0:   2:10:11
shit last that feeling lasted. It's like your jeep here. It lasts for a about 10 minutes.

spk_1:   2:10:18
Okay, We're your parents. Happy Super stoked everyone around you. I remember when you told me and you shared information with the I remember being so happy and so proud of you, man. Because I saw all your work. I saw your effort and to see one of my boys fucking, you know, kind of say what he's gonna do and fucking do it. I love that shit. Dude. I love that. So I want to tell you on here, man, I'm really proud of the work that you have done, And, um, to the level that you're at. And I know bigger things. They're going to come

spk_0:   2:10:47
right because this is my future focus mentality is so hard for me to stay in a moment and be content or be pleased or be happy. I don't know what that what word to use, but it's hard for me to sit in that moment for very long.

spk_1:   2:11:02
Do you think that's, um I mean, I know for me, right? Like getting winds and feeling good. It's It helps build you up. And I understand that, you know, you're kind of like the next, the next, the next the next. But like sometimes living in the moment is, it's not about

spk_0:   2:11:17
I get. It's good advice, and it works. For most people, it just might not be for me. I mean, you know, I have ever since I was 16 or 17 whenever there's a book called The Singularity Is Near. It's a guy who had written the book, had wrote another book called The Age of Spiritual Machines. Rakers Well, and when I read those books, it changed me as a person more than anything else, probably ever has. Wow. And ever since then it's always been about the future. And, ah, there's there's a lot to uncover their that probably we can't go into. But I think that the basis of who I am as a person is a solid base of optimism that is indestructible. And then on top of that is a you know, a layer of stoicism that allows the optimism to exist. It's a kn changeable form, and then there's trans humanism on top of that, and that's the one I never talk about because it just gets too weird. And most people don't have an appreciation, maybe for the speed at what technology is moving, where it's going and what the repercussions are, what the I guess advantages could potentially be for humanity, so not to go too deep into that. But part of that interest means acquiring a level of wealth. Yeah, um, that allows me to be part of that process and and again that it just gets into such.

spk_1:   2:12:38
Do you think we're at this point where it's like tech? You know, we are in this huge technological shift right. Technology is moving faster than we can even blink our fucking eyes Right on. Are we a little too soon? Like meaning? You and I? Because, like the next generation, right, you're 100 years from now, we're gonna have human cyborgs for sure. I mean, yeah, there's are, like, I'm not human. Yeah,

spk_0:   2:13:02
cyborgs. Yeah, there's It's hard to say because who knows how steep there sure of is and how quickly the future could arrive. In a sense, where the singularity is the specific point at which the, you know, the aye aye of artificial intelligence is thinking faster than humans and able to take action. And then there's like, this singularity.

spk_1:   2:13:25
But it's like that is what What I like to call is the next phase of evolution for human means, right? It is that next step. So maybe it's not human beings anymore. It's like a I. But if you do believe in evolution, you know, you way started out at this one point we became this other thing that we grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. So if evolution is a real thing, and that means it does not stop, so is the singularity the next phase of evolution,

spk_0:   2:13:48
right? That would be a logical assumption exactly over the process. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. I mean, and then the neuro link the thing that Elon Musk is working on and there's not a lot of information that yet did one really interesting presentation on it and suggests that will be able to actually link up with machine level intelligence. And so we basically amplify ourselves. So I can't necessarily run away from us because we're able to keep pace maintainer biological form. It's interesting to talk about this stuff because it's funny, because I think some people think of me as, like a business guy. Yes, And then some people think of me maybe a little bro. Wish I were active, where most days I love working out and you drive a Jeep

spk_1:   2:14:32
a bad ass cheap, but it's definitely a brochure.

spk_0:   2:14:34
Eso eso. But then, like most of my deep love is for psychology, philosophy and technology and 100% so it's I don't find myself talking like this very often. We're talking about these things because I think that the identity that most people have for me this fits in a little bit side was

spk_1:   2:14:54
for sure. But also like the druggie too, you know that you had for many, many years.

spk_0:   2:14:58
What do you mean? People would think that you're a stoner, right? Right. That perception that people would have of me, this is a little bit better than just saying. Yeah, and that's the thing I have become in this. We talked about this before, which is, I like to be aware of the filters that I'm being caught up in as I'm communicating with someone or I'm presenting myself because at the end of the day, I want to be an effective person. Is that I can accomplish my goals, which time this all together have to do with human potential. It does. And ah, trance Humanism, in a sense, is the ultimate human potential. With some clear caveats. Like I could argue against my belief as much as I can argue for it, which I think is a healthy place to have an opinion.

spk_1:   2:15:41
You can change my mind day to day, but like, straight, straight up, I could believe this. And then if you paint a good argument, I look into it. Okay, I understand. I was wrong.

spk_0:   2:15:49
Okay, There you go. Yeah. And then I think it's important that you should be able to paint that argument in the other direction. If not, you're not introducing yourself to full breath of the conversation. You always make me do that. You always come at me. It's you know, it's like consider the alternative is that Ray is a great idea, especially when you believe causes the Maur. You believe in something, and the more sure you are, the more you don't understand the other side of what you're actually trying Thio. Yeah, for sure that you should understand if you're gonna try to be so so, so

spk_1:   2:16:17
so real quick because I don't know a lot about trans humanism, and then we're gonna get back. Is trends humanism like, you know, cyborgs or what the fuck

spk_0:   2:16:24
is it? Trance Humanism is transcending. Humanity is the underlying idea. It's also sometimes called post humanism. Okay, um, these there's actual art movements and stuff. They get kind of wrapped up in these terminologies to be consumed confusing. There's extra pianism, which is my instagram name, which is basically the opposite of entropy. You call it extra P extremism So it's a belief system based on the continual improvement of the human condition.

spk_1:   2:16:52
So it's Elon Musk for sure. Um, I think so. Although he

spk_0:   2:16:56
has a slightly negative viewpoint on the potential of a I and an extra pianism, you would believe more positively about the outcome.

spk_1:   2:17:05
I mean, we've all seen Terminator. So sure it's anything's a real free for

spk_0:   2:17:09
sure. This is the understanding of the side of it, and it's, what side of it do you fall on? Um, I'm split in the middle. It's it's It's a really important thing to keep your eye on and to be part of if you can, because it's gonna have such huge impacts

spk_1:   2:17:22
in our lives,

spk_0:   2:17:23
in our life,

spk_1:   2:17:23
in our lives, you know, robotics. A. I is going to play a vital role, our lives.

spk_0:   2:17:30
But it's again very hard to talk of these things with most people because most people, like most lack of ability, hair color companies shut up about the robots in the

spk_1:   2:17:36
future, for sure, absolutely. But at the end of the day, you know that part of you now you're at this point where we're gonna bring this back. It's like you are deciding to leave California to go to Boston. All right, so we're going to get back in the kind of come back.

spk_0:   2:17:48
So we talk about Simon. Simon Simon is superhuman. Yes. Yes. Simon is undescribable inwards. I don't mean to be so, you know, proposed. But like when you get to know someone on the level that I've gotten to know This guy. Ah, and you see only good things. The deeper you go, you're like, What are you How is this

spk_1:   2:18:10
possible alien out of possibly could be? Could be. Could

spk_0:   2:18:14
be very much. He's either an alien or he's from the future. I have these fun jokes. Were there certain people in my life that have been very important and so often I'll talk to them in a sense, like you're a robot from the future that I'm gonna build in 20 years? It's in back, uh, to be my friend. You're such an idiot. I know. Uh, but yes. Oh, Simon fits squarely into that camp. So I met him at a again Founder Institute was a huge thing.

spk_1:   2:18:42
Damn, That's where you met him. No,

spk_0:   2:18:44
but when I talk about, like being grateful for certain things a day or re sees. The guy who started the founders to started because he had a bad experience is a start up company. He built like a $1,000,000,000 company, but a lot of it was taken away because he had not understood the games that are played. When you're building a company and your investors do this and the lawyers, you this and get it out in the day. Your soul, the building company, you got what you got. Like a huge lawyer building. Almost lost money on something called a founder institute that basically taught what you wouldn't learn anywhere else. You'd only learn the hard way. Um, going back to that story with beauty Fox. I actually, uh, pure perseverance. Graduated at the top of the class and then got invited to a thing called metal, which is an awesome group of guys that meat out in Santa Monica as

spk_1:   2:19:24
a badass name for a group

spk_0:   2:19:25
of networking group for mandate do swimming. Obviously, in the last couple years,

spk_1:   2:19:30
how dare they just wasn't gonna continue. I

spk_0:   2:19:33
was for a long time just walking around. Um, but that was great. Um, to go through that process until meet all these people. Where we going with them?

spk_1:   2:19:42
So I would. So we're talking about Simon. And how

spk_0:   2:19:46
so? So dairy. See, uh, I stopped going in networking events because they had become so, like, massively lame in Los Angeles. But I'm such like, like action cause reactions. Just go do shit. You never know what's gonna happen. But I had to turn on a filter because I found myself wasting a ton of time at these events. So I started thinking I will go to the event based on who's speaking. So today I was going to speak, okay? And I'm like, I'm there because this guy's gonna attract, you know, a Norbit of people who are really awesome. And so, um, you know, and you're a room full of really amazing people, right? And I don't have the Florida speak. And so one of the hacks that I have is that a key into whoever speaking. And I listened intently as best as I can, And I'm you know, looking things up as they're talking, edited it, er and they get the point where they say many questions and I got a fucking great question, because I got That's awesome. I'm, like, research into Did it, uh, So I dropped, Like, the best question I could possibly think of it. Like, who is this guy? And so then again and again and maybe I dropped three or four of these, like, home run questions, like I'm fucked here. The answer is just trying to get awareness built inside this room

spk_1:   2:20:56
that is so smart to anyone listening. That is a great way to get the speaker's attention. Shout out to you, ma'am. Thank you. All right, So you have, um You met him, you know, asking very specific questions. It attracted him. You kept this friendship with him for years after Paul Pariah hits? How the heck did you are? So it just blows my mind

spk_0:   2:21:19
just like David said. You know, there's gonna be people that you meet throughout your life in your business career that you're gonna wanna work with. Um, yeah, Simon, like, nailed it from day one. I'm like, I gotta work with this guy on something, and, um, it's just we saw we saw the future so clearly. And this is probably really important for anybody who does any partnerships, you don't have to agree on anything except the future. If you agree on the future, the navigation of the president will happen naturally because you both want the same goal. You want the same outcome. You'll disagree on how to get there. But you both still want to get there. You figured out what was your reason. We'll ask people. It's when two people want a different future that the paths will diverge and there will not be clear communication. And then that's when things break down. Because of that, Simon and I have probably what I would consider the best working relationship I've ever had with anybody we can like, disagree on everything. And again, this goes back to him being such an amazing person. He's so like, able to receive information. Even when I phrase it kind of aggressively, he's like, No, no, it's good. Like exactly what we want to say it say that way, and then he'll he'll, you know, take it in and he'll communicate in a way back that is measured and, you know, intelligent and yeah, it's just a little level of emotions.

spk_1:   2:22:31
You guys believe in each other, too. much fucking awesome. Yeah, it's really cool. You guys both have a different dynamic, but it's kind of like that Yin and yang that that

spk_0:   2:22:39
works. Yeah, we have slightly different skill sets. We have overlapping skill sets. Um, but it's clear who's better at a lot of them. And so we typically gravitate towards, um, you know, he pushes me to because he works so hard and that's Ah, that's kind of a secret to success to is that you can cash me kind of idiot as long as you work really hard. Probably end up better than most for sure. Um, but when you're crazy, intelligent and you work really hard, it's just it's kind of

spk_1:   2:23:09
scary. It's insane. You've been here now, you know, for like a week and you waking up at, like, four o'clock in the morning just to be ready for him at, you know, five, because that's eight o'clock in the morning there. That's huge, because I remember I was Actually, dude, there's, like for me like I mean, I get it, but just my thought process of like waking about five o'clock in the morning, which means you actually gotta wake up earlier to be ready. It's impressive to go to gym first. Yes, you do, but it's still you. Take care of your shit, and that's That's awesome. Yeah, so,

spk_0:   2:23:38
yeah, it's it's having a good partner like that is really important if you're going to go down any path. And again, David was very much the same way. Um, David's worth the work ethic again was not as visible to me because we were not like like Simon. I communicate on a minute by minute basis. Uh, David and I were not necessarily like that, Although we worked very closely in the beginning. It became quickly, we had more and more people, and there was 30 people at some point. And so it was like there was a separation. But I have a feeling that David's work ethic, um, is off the charts, but it's complemented by, like, pure instinct that can't be matched. That's that's the because, he said. Many times we had disagreements about how to do things, and clearly he was. He would make the decision. I'd be like I supported 100% like even if I was like, I don't know about this 100% support. Let's do it will make it happen. And then my optimism would take over. And like, even if he's fucking wrong, I'll make it right. Yeah, it was It was right every single time. I was always like, Okay, take a note, bro. You're You're totally wrong. Completely wrong. Um, but yes. So that was That was also awesome to see is that the longer you do something, and the more you pay attention, the more introspective you are. You He's also pretty wired in a certain way that most people are just lets you make really good decisions very fast.

spk_1:   2:24:52
And him and his wife got that, like, power Shit going on. So it's, uh it's beautiful to see, so All right, So you're you're meeting with Simon. You're talking with him. But he's in Boston, right? Right. So what was in your mind? Like, I'm gonna fucking move out there. So I

spk_0:   2:25:04
had the contract. I had to leave beauty in general. So I decided to leave Los Angeles, who's had been a while. So I You know, uh, e think I was out of the lease and everything else and ah, everything lined up in Simon. I had talked a lot about working together, and that would be much easier to do in the same place. Wasn't excited necessarily to go to Boston. Came specifically. But, uh, I'll do anything. It was a necessity if I think the future is there, so so go there. And what I learned about Boston. Most people have a total bag. Misconception. I know where this whole what accent stuff coming. I've never met anybody with an accent. The boss was crazy. Um, everybody I met were incredibly technically deep specialists. Okay, so whether they were working in finance or technology or medical, I mean, it has more colleges in any other city, so yeah, it's It's like per capita. There's more colleges there than any place in the world. I think, um, Harvard and yeah, I guess that makes you a bunch of really smart people. Crazy, but specialist to that's an interesting difference. And, you know, you have intelligence like the ability to take in information, understand what's happening, and then in for a good decision from this information like that's, you know, general intelligence. But then there's also a level of technical intelligence that you only get when you've worked really hard on a particular subject and you become an expert in it and just takes a lot of time and the intensity. And so I was meeting these people who are, like, you know, deep researchers on name the problem, right? They were working on everything. Okay, I could not keep up with them because I was like, I understand the words you're using, but I don't have any context. So I just got a smile and nod, Um and it was It was difficult. And Thio build friendships because friendships again, it's sometimes problem based. What problems are you working on? Oh my God, have the same problem. Then you have this. It's like, you know, when there's a big disaster. It was like we have the same problem. Let's be friends. Yes, it's the same thing. I think in human interactions, where you're like, we have the same problems we can like, we can work. This just works. It's some sort of bonding glue that you know, I don't maybe

spk_1:   2:27:07
no, but it is. It's so true because, like in the United States of America, it's very polarized right now. But let's just kind of go back when 9 11 happened, right? What happened? There was a problem, and everyone came together. And obviously that's on a larger scale, but it works even on smaller scale. So if you both have a common problem, what do you work together? Doesn't matter. Yeah, so continues. I,

spk_0:   2:27:32
um Yeah, so So, as you know, but I have to say, like, there's a guy named Tag that I met up there. Just like the funnest guy to be around. Um, girl named Rachel, One of smart girls I've ever met. Ah, super talented to it. What she did, um, there were

spk_1:   2:27:50
There's just just some unique friendship soup are Why did you go out there? What we're trying to build. Uh, it

spk_0:   2:27:56
was to ah, originally, you know, I was really gonna pursue, like, some bizarre interests that I hadn't had the means or the time to pursue. Prior, um, I suddenly had a deep interest in finance, which, you know, we we grew up poor eso didn't have a lot of money, spent most my life pours hell. So I was like, Okay, what I do with money. So I became pretty interested in finance and how it all worked. So I spent some time getting deeper into that. And then I was like, Oh, my God, I see all these problems and sells like I like to solve problems. So let's build a finance company. And then we got into that and then learned that that is a race to the bottom and requires massive funding to exist. And there was a lot of early movers that have gotten Moz built pretty deeply. So we became uninterested in that pretty quick, super passionate about dogs, which I hadn't really been before. I hadn't had the opportunity to really build a lot like my dogs I had when I was younger. We, like, pulled out of the alley like captured them. That's cool that you're gonna be my

spk_1:   2:28:53
dead now You're my dog. Yeah, that's awesome.

spk_0:   2:28:55
Yeah, take it off the street. But with all the working that I was doing, the interesting lifestyle a CE faras living situation didn't really allow me to have a dog. So we build a website called Watchdog Labs, which is still up. So watchdog labs dot com and ah, we went bananas and like the Nerd zone to figure out safe food for dogs, which is a wild problem. Like again. Once I get into something I'm like,

spk_1:   2:29:21
why does everyone not paying attention? I know, but I remember. I remember. You're like, I'm gonna build like this, you know? Watched. Watch. What's a golden watch?

spk_0:   2:29:28
Dog love?

spk_1:   2:29:29
I watched aka Labs, I think. What is this dude thing? What does he think? You know, But you can't. You won't allow it. It's It's still up and running today. Yeah,

spk_0:   2:29:37
yeah, and it's a great resource it had. It teaches people, but not even teaches. It just walks you through like your basic suck the breed on the size, all the different selections, and then it gives you we re rank the actual food based on a percentage and score the way that we do it. I mean, we spend retail this amount of time on this, and we had, like, all these rude, again deep specialists that were like helping us build algorithms and shit. It was like this could have been and then this did not apply the speed thing. We could have built it in, like, a fraction of the time. Okay. Probably got roughly the same result. But we just went overboard. It's all right because I mean, I truly, deeply were there, like lots of people use the site and they use it on a regular basis and get shared and it's growing. And that's great. Um, you know, and there's only so much interest I can maintain and something for a period of time. So it's We handed it over to a manager now who runs it. And there was actually a few other websites like that that we started in that, like flurry of six months of working together because one Simon, I start working together. It was like 18 hours a day in the C I.

spk_1:   2:30:36
C guys were just fucking hospital just like

spk_0:   2:30:39
And then it was like it was also winter. And I was like, any friends? Let's just fucking hustles winter out there Fucking brutal. It was pretty rough. Umm and so in it and I was exploring all the type of interests. Um, I got into to doing some boxing, too, and, uh, I messed up my shoulder and it wasn't a little screwed up like I really messed it up. And I'm very big on ignoring things. Yes, you are. I'm just like it'll be

spk_1:   2:31:04
fun to have a headache.

spk_0:   2:31:05
I do. It's while killing your eyes like

spk_1:   2:31:07
you're fucking going out. Everyone's are like, crushing eyes. I'm gonna make a tighter

spk_0:   2:31:12
thanks. Um, but he was So, uh, this shoulder thing was Nagy at first. And then it got bad to the point where I couldn't work out because my left arm had zero strength. And I don't know if you've ever had that happen where it's like if you want to do a curl and you can do, like, £45 with the right arm and you can't do five with your left, you're like, I am eft up right now. Yes, and so And I would wake up in constant pain. And it was It was it was ability.

spk_1:   2:31:40
Like I'm not gonna go to the doctor. I'm just gonna figure it out,

spk_0:   2:31:42
man. I tried to sort it out for a while, it myself, But it got so bad I couldn't sit in a chair for more than, like, 20 minutes without my arm going numb. The numbers turns in the pain and it was my neck, and it was my shoulder. And then it was my arm. Dude, it was a nightmare. I hated it. I hated every

spk_1:   2:31:56
second long Was this going on? For

spk_0:   2:31:58
months. It went on for months and and eventually I was like, I got I got to sort this out. So I start going to doctors, acupuncturist, uh, physical therapists like it was like crossing appointments going from one to another. I'm just like, let's figure this out half the team on this one and get this work this shit gotta massage there. They had, like, three massage people working on a different times. Dude, nothing was working. It was crazy how I was, like, deaf, did I? Seriously, fuck my arm. This body. Um, ready? And I had a really great massage therapist that helped me figure out what it actually was. And it was more in my neck. And it was Ah, no, I mean, I don't understand. All the terminology was using, but something was really screwed up and the pain was crazy. So, um then it was about that I was bitching about it as little as possible. Not to you, but Simon was noticed. Seem like did you can't sit still for Thomas. What are you doing? So and by the time I also went to a trade show and, um, someone at a trade show gave me a, uh, cream because I obvious was like,

spk_1:   2:32:59
Can you fix my problem? Yeah, like stranger. Come here. Could you fix my You? You? Yeah, it was like, anyway,

spk_0:   2:33:08
have any ideas? So I This woman was selling Ah, CBD cream. Okay, so I was, like, gave it to me. Please, I'll try this

spk_1:   2:33:17
out. That's really crazy. Hold on. Because as long as I've known you, um, no, no alcohol that we optical. I know. I'm sitting here smoking a joint. You would? Definitely not. Right. And when I found out that you know, you had tried the CBD, I was just I was really blown away by it. Yeah, but what was it? What happened?

spk_0:   2:33:39
So the cream that I tried at first it felt like icy hot and had no impact whatsoever. Okay, so I thought one of two things I was like, Well, either somebody's just trash scam stuff, like a lot of vitamin world is, or this product is trash. That's one thing I thought or topical is a trash, but either way, make sure they're still screwed up. I can't like it. Didn't do anything for me and I was putting on day after day after day. Um And so then Simon says at one point, Have you tried CBD? And I was like, Yeah, for the topical and he's No, no, no, no. You gotta take the stuff or I'll stuff. You put that under your tongue. Yeah, How you know, he's like I've been taking it was what? Because he's also very much saying you're not much of a drinker, so sub lingual, but yeah, so I said, I I can't man. I don't want to change anything about my mentality and my personality or my way of seeing the world. I like difficult things. I don't like the shoulder thing, but I don't want anything to change. Other than that, like I'm cool. And, um, he said it was very much like that teeter totter. The pain was much worse than I not wanting to take. Yes, but also I trusted Simon, you know, with my life the most hard. So I'm just like, if if you're telling me that this is gonna be good. I'll go with it. I'll try it out. And so, um, I got my most expensive brand. I confined just defaulting to the heuristic. Oh, expensive means good. Not it was true. Not always true. This instance It was, though I did get a really good brand, so I tried it. And it was with about two weeks. It was as if my shoulder like opened up. And I did. The pain went away. Wait a minute. Didn't reduce. It fucking went away.

spk_1:   2:35:18
It took the pain away.

spk_0:   2:35:20
It everything that was causing the pain stopped The tingling stop. The titans stopped at nothing to stop. Everything stopped. It was it was like, day after day. It was, like progressively better, better, better, better. And then I was like Like I barely even remember feeling like that when I was because I move. I think so little about the past. I'm so again future. That almost was like I almost took it for granted, too. And I probably would have. But then there was another aspect of it that I didn't expect. So I had been living with a lot of stress for a long period of time and again that was just daily. That's just the way the body works. Some point, like we had talked about, maybe 24 25 started feeling stress 28 when I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be is his life. I guys, this is rough. Um, if you're trying to do big show, you know what? Chill and like play Frisbee and maybe you don't deal with it. But if you're like like like, I might run out of money tomorrow or like, is this all gonna blow up and go to shit? And, you know, like I got to go to these six cities in the next four days and you just start Your brain is wired to be a little worried about stuff and that starts to wear on your humongous. So anyways, in those two weeks, boom goes to zero. And I'm like, I don't feel that feeling anymore. What? I'm not worried about stuff

spk_1:   2:36:38
had you correlated it to the CBD A.

spk_0:   2:36:40
It was almost I was like it was like I knew exactly what was happening, because this is what people had said as faras stress and anxiety. And I was like, I was like Maybe, But that's like You can't make that go away. That's just that is what my, That's what I've become in a way. So when that should drop to zero, I was like, Well, this is actually gonna be a very different life than I had expected. So which is, you know, that's a big statement, and I get how charged up that is. And I also know how much hype there isn't. CBD and I know how much trash there is on the market because the other thing that we did is that with the watchdog lab's testing process, we really got to understand CIA ways because we were doing all these. CIA weighs on dog Food Let's see a way for people. That certificate of authenticity, I believe, is the actual Basically, it's a lab report that tells you exactly what's going on in whatever you've gotten tested. And so with dog food, we were really you know, what's protein was? Carbs, Fats, What's the heavy metals and other stuff? Um, and then with cannabis and CBD and hip, it's a big thing to, uh to really understand, because, uh, hemp is a bio accumulator as a plant. And so whatever soil it's in, if that soil happens to have arsenic in it or something like that, the plan is going to absorb the shit out of it, and it's gonna maintain through and into the actual product that you create.

spk_1:   2:37:59
So that end result will have whatever is in that soil.

spk_0:   2:38:02
And I've seen some CIA ways from companies that are just blatant, like, loaded with shit. And you're like, Okay, what they're saying it like but everyone you're still buying it.

spk_1:   2:38:10
Why? Why do you think people are

spk_0:   2:38:12
too busy? They're not stupid. Too busy, Too busy to try to understand what, See away isn't actually read it and really get a full understanding of it. But it's there in black and white sometimes. So anyways, that's there's becoming the CBD Review sites. And you know, a lot of times these companies are okay. They're just paid sites and whatever they're advertising for companies willing to pay them. Um, but a lot of time, they're doing a good job of actually saying, Hey, take a look this year. Wait, actually says that there's like, this crazy metal in it, or it has a mycotoxin or it has like, there's there's, you know, so many different Young's, right, Right, So So this is all very important. Um, so it was after I start to go in and sleep was the other thing. Thio Always a pretty good sleeper, but I had developed a tendency to stay up a little too late. Kind of just the mind wasn't really shutting off as it was. And I wasn't doing a lot of time and was working really hard and stuff, but I didn't feel like it wasn't like Pulp. Yeah, where had all these people depending on me, there were far fewer and interdependencies with people on when there's less people involved, I think the mind is able to let go a lot more because you're like, I have my responsibilities and my list of things that have happened. But I don't have to worry about 15 other people for sure. So So I did have that little release as faras. It made a little bit easier to sleep because I wasn't wondering about, you know, the people reporting to me

spk_1:   2:39:26
100%. I mean, that makes a lot of 77

spk_0:   2:39:28
but he was so But I did have a Tennessee step really late. Um And then there were times I just wake up in middle of night and had a nice view, and I would just find myself staring out. Milton, Boston can't go to sleep full city. What? Yeah, so in again, you kind of get used to that. At some point. You just get your laptop. You start doing work when you read a book. I mean, whatever you do, you d'oh, you get food. Or maybe you go to the gym earlier. What? Um, and again, there's always a positive side. Nobody's in the gym. Nobody's gonna call you. Nobody's gonna bug you. So you just blast through some work really quick. Uh, anyways, it's also nice to get eight hours of sleep, and that starts unraveling. Yeah, I start happened regularly to start sleeping all the way through the night, falling asleep at will. It's kind of an interesting thing I do now. Just 50 49. 40. I get to, like, 30 and I'm done. I'm

spk_1:   2:40:20
really Yeah, she just count everything. My night. Wow, it worded. Where did you even learn that?

spk_0:   2:40:25
I just made that one up It's going cheap. Backwards, I guess.

spk_1:   2:40:28
I guess so. Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0:   2:40:30
It's actually like 49 would be 40. You breathe in and 49 you breathe out our 90 breathe out 40. I

spk_1:   2:40:37
like that 48. It's rhythmic. And then you just gone. You're

spk_0:   2:40:41
done. Her fair. You'll find some times where you're like sisters.

spk_1:   2:40:48
Goodbye. And how long you been doing that?

spk_0:   2:40:53
I don't even know forever. I feel like, No, I started doing it when I was in Cambridge when I was having a little bit more trouble for me when I was staying up too late. And then because you stay up so late, you eventually point your body's like Are we staying up? Is that

spk_1:   2:41:04
what we're doing tonight? Exactly.

spk_0:   2:41:05
You know, kind of should go to bed, and it's like, It's well, it's three in the morning, bro. You really

spk_1:   2:41:09
Oh, just kind of got this second wind. And it's exactly what happened that you just didn't kind of get back to his like you took the CBD, your your your shoulder, your neck. That issue is gone. Your sleep is getting better. Your stress is being alleviated in your mind or you like Wait a minute, people. People like that. They've been talking about this, but I just thought it was hoopla

spk_0:   2:41:30
because I also was I was I was never there against cannabis, but I was so not into that plant and I was on and see smoking. I just didn't. And I mean, surely I know it does something for the body, but I was also very much like I want to maintain whatever this consciousness is that I appreciate so much, and it's pure for and I respect that, um, but when I you know and it was I wasn't looking for the release Mentally, I was looking for the physical release, the pain. But when the mental side came, I was like, Holy sh I am back like in, like, full form where I'm like I can I can think clearly I can work on whatever I want to work. I can sit for long periods so I can sit through an entire movie. Now I cannot sit through entire movie before. That's incredible. I run miles and miles and miles, and I had the physical ability to run many miles, but not the mental endurance run. Many miles from now. I do because I'm like, I can zone out a little bit if I just choose to be. You know, President,

spk_1:   2:42:26
I guess I feel like that's the only time I can release zone out was when I'm running. Yeah, because I'm not, I don't know, a problem like not probably like you. You're constantly thinking about 50 million things when I run. I don't know. I could just zone out. But I do love how CBD kind of found its way into your life, and it just kind of helps you out with these three big issues. What was next? How did you

spk_0:   2:42:51
know I got obsessed because makes sense. My human potential was now peaked, and I was like, This is taking me to a love like I started to feel like it was ah, like a performance enhancement drug for business or for life, for what I went to accomplish. So when it clicked into that human potential thing, I started being like everybody should at least try this, of course. And then someone's like, Are you gonna sell essential oils on? So the industry has a direct kind of persona in many ways, right now, because every hack is like starting a CVT company or cannabis company like and they're doing in soaps and matches and everyone's a fucking all kinds of shit. That makes no sense, but it's like the hot word and beauty. Unfortunately, we love new things. And so when someone puts seating to shampoo were like

spk_1:   2:43:38
Fuck yes, amazing in shampoo. Let's do this. What are you doing?

spk_0:   2:43:41
What is it doing? Like Seriously, what is it doing, Anders Or even CBD and Dina and Simon and I again I kind of touched on. We did the seal. I think she was buying all this stuff off the market, just buying straight off the shelf testing it. And things were so inaccurate, the levels of CBD inaccurate, claiming C B G or CBN or CBC Not in there not even close to the testable levels. Terrible man. It's, um there's no regulation. So just go away with it. And, you know, some of the companies have trash brands like they're not well put together as a brand someone more. But all that means said there are several really really, really good brands.

spk_1:   2:44:16
One that helped you. Um hey, so many and

spk_0:   2:44:18
they're fighter. I've probably taken 20 maybe 25 different brands personally for different reasons. I wanted to try them a different reasons. And it's crazy how sensitive Not not sensitive that my body is. But how it tuned in, I am now knowing that there is this range. I wasn't just stuck on the high end. And when I switch off one and I start taking one for two weeks and I'm like, Oh, shit, this isn't working. This isn't This isn't the same thing. Um, Price isn't always a good way to figure out if it's gonna work either. So it was started. Get really obsessed with it. I have the time or the means to do the research. Um, I know Simon's taken it too, And so Inter independently, we both actually start going down the path of looking into it as a business opportunity to not even knowing not even knowing that the person was doing it. Um, that's awesome. It gets more crazy s o. So we're doing this research and and I would say him and I are both pretty research heavy, like we can both get lost and do days and days and days of research. Rabbit Hole. Yes, yes, he's better than I am. And I'll admit it, though he just is more thorough than I am. So But I love get on the phone and poking holes in things that I think I'm getting my

spk_1:   2:45:25
love poking holes in everything. But it's good. It's good.

spk_0:   2:45:28
It's just gonna break What's What are you You know what? It's not really about what you're these people are saying. So, um, after probably a month, I put together because we when we also like to respect each other's time, too. So I didn't want to just come off the cuff and say, Hey, have you looked in the CBD? Because also, I had my own hesitations about it, too. Oh, for sure. I knew he believed in a cause. He was taking it soon because they're doing this. Research will start looking at vendors start looking a supplier starting. How could we actually create a product? And then So I come to him with this fool laid out almost like presentation, and I'm like So you introduced me to CVD like so funny and then he's like this crazy. I've been looking into it, too. Like every night I've been doing all this research, we found the same company shot or, uh, out of the and literally. There are, like, hundreds and hundreds of these companies coming out of the woodwork. They're like, we can make somebody we can make some tea. Um, this story is a little bit longer where we worked with an incredible guy at that company who worked with us very closely. But it was that No, no, no. Process that Something about earlier words like we want to do this. We want to do this one. Do this. We see this company doing this. We see this other company doing this. When you both those things like, how is it possible to do this? This this is Do you guys are awesome. That's not possible. Like, appreciate it. That will exist. But it probably won't exist for another two years and all the reasons and everything else And what you find is that people are saying no because they can't do it. Not that it can't be done. Of course. So it's really important to keep digging. If you're trying to build something and find the person that wants the same thing that you want and you'll you'll make it work. So, uh, we work and work and work and work and work with that company, and we eventually get to the point where it's like they could not make what we wanted to make. Um, And then they came to the decision that they were gonna close the division of customization anyways, so we were gonna continue to, like, push it with them and eventually get to what we wanted because we actually have started to take over part of their process of actually supplying different parts of the thing to make it work. Um, and it's so there's something close division. And I was like, Oh, man. And this is months of work already. Yeah. And granted, that was all very valuable because we had learned a ton of stuff in the process. And we had been very much down the road of creating, like, an untouchable product that we had, you know, we have basically built up to be the best you could possibly make

spk_1:   2:47:42
once again, looking back, right, you're looking like looking back at that time like this is very, very valuable right. Maybe not in the moment.

spk_0:   2:47:49
So the moment Ah, the guy who had been working with so much, um says hey, uh, just because no, we're looking closings division. Um, but we have a few key clients. You're one of them would keep guys when keep moving forward. So don't worry. I'm gonna go to bat one. Get this done. So my cool, sweet. Yeah, I sleep great. That for sure. Simon's very different. So I was like, Fuck tha this is gonna not gonna work. He's So he goes into, like, research mode. Oh, she and he basically spent that whole night in that whole morning research, research, research, research, research. Um, what are the other options? Are there other farms that we could work with? Is somebody already moving in the direction that we want to work? And Ah, it's like page 35 pitch 36. When you said page 36 to 30 70 he finds a company. Um, so So, anyways, uh, the next day comes, we get on the phone, the guys like ham. So sorry. It's just we're going in another direction. We're closing this thing, and then that guy actually believe in the company shortly after. I think he was pleased with that decision, as I wasn't for sure. Like like someone's like Ever see this? We're going

spk_1:   2:48:52
to go and have a seat child

spk_0:   2:48:54
like And then it's, uh, you know, when you make a product, you don't always get to be the actual like person manufacturing the product, Um, which is sometimes a good thing, because I find that the company that is thes the manufacturer and that's doing the whole thing. They're usually not doing several things very well because it's consuming to manufacture products, every single part massively difficult. Um, and this particular product is so hard to make because is a plant that grows in limited quantities that has to be cared for in a particular way than it has to be extracted in a very particular way. Like all these things have to be done in a way. Otherwise, the work that you did prior is kind of lost, so we managed to find a very small supplier who is able to make the highest quality. They hit every single notch that we wanted to hit and then actually exceeded it in a few places, that we didn't know could be improved so completely. USDA organic certified very hard to dio huge. That's the soil That's the plant. That's the extractor. That's the bottle of the whole supply chain has to be certified organic. We have that.

spk_1:   2:50:09
That is fucking huge, because what is there like three or four other ones? As there's not many, there's not many, right? Ah, and when there is. If not, there's thousands of CBD companies out there. If not tens of the House Lindsay I to be won a few. It just shows the level of quality and care every single step of the way.

spk_0:   2:50:32
So that is a pretty big differentiator for who we are as a company, I think, um, that is, honestly just the beginning. So when you make this plant, it's a strain, right? And anybody who and I again I smell whole life not smoking, So I didn't really understand strains and different effects for sure like that. But you grow strange and breeds strange and you get different. Potency is for different effects. Absolutely So for this particular strain, only grown on this farm, it's been bred over season after season after season to get in this very particular form, which is super high and CBC C B D c B G c B c super low in th. See? It's not designed to get you high. It is absolutely not its purpose. So it's been bred over the seasons to become less and less intoxicating, which is really, really important because then when you go to the next step of doing the extraction, the harder you have to work to get T HCL, the more you're gonna pull out everything else to me, Oh requires a process. So

spk_1:   2:51:26
it's already at a lower level, like very, very low. And that process on, then what you

spk_0:   2:51:31
do lose of the other things there in higher quantities you don't use. Kind of have. Yeah, um, now the extraction process. There's a whole lot of ways to do it. But most common, though, is this ethanol basically soaking process, and it is like a like an alcohol bath. For the most part, it's harsh, but you lots of it really fast,

spk_1:   2:51:51
Yeah, but they're soaking your your flower or plant matter or whatever in alcohol. My mind, I know what it does, but it's just sent for converting. Yeah.

spk_0:   2:52:02
Hey, separated. And then the separation has to be done in a way that's good enough that you extract all that from us. I don't have any leftovers. Um, it's the most common way. Yeah, the company's not saying how they're doing it. That's how they're doing it. Um, And then you have a super critical in a subcritical process for doing the extraction using CO two, which is like a clean, odorless gas that could be removed completely. So use subcritical, which is very rare. Okay, a subcritical is slow. And so if you're thinking as a manufacturer, you want to move quickly because I want to be able to do it. Basically, time is money on the machines. You want the machine running. You want a machine to do a lot, except etcetera. So already, when you're doing this, you're doing a smaller quantity because they're using a container like enclosed environment, so it could only be so big. And now we're doing subcritical. So we're also using low pressure, low heat, and so we're doing a much slower extracted slow and steady. The whole reason is you get a much better potency

spk_1:   2:52:52
and this is all done through CEO to extraction. Subcritical. See to extraction. That's incredible, right?

spk_0:   2:52:58
And so then I know what you are actually extracting from is also very important, too. So a lot of companies through everything and you get that plant, you got stones, you get the leaves, you got the flyer, you got everything. We're just putting in the flour. And the reason is because there's not really anything in the leaves and the stem that you're gonna want. There's precursors to the things that end up in the flower, but they're not valuable in that form necessarily. But it's much cheaper to obviously use this third. All right, so we take out the things that have value. When you leave, the thing is gonna put so we get a really potent and result because it's obviously taking the most potent porn and we're most part in part of the plan. And then we're taking it out slowly. So we're getting the best possible result

spk_1:   2:53:37
every single step of the way. It just taste taste. And that's where I was gonna ask,

spk_0:   2:53:43
because a lot of people and a lot of the really good ones, because you have a broad spectrum and you have full spectrum. Full spectrum is I'm gonna speak from an opinion, but it's scientifically backed up is better than broad spectrum because you get the full spectrum of what the plane has to offer. It's all designed to work together, in my opinion. So you want to get the full going to get the full spectrum, and that does include a little bit of th see okay for federal reasons asked me below 0.3% in order to be legal. So we make sure that we get ours below that 0.3% So it doesn't

spk_1:   2:54:11
get you. It's not psychoactive. Absolutely not completely. Not now. What about broad spectrum? Just so people know

spk_0:   2:54:16
Ah so broad Spectrum doesn't have TFC in it, Okay, it's broad in the sense of it's such confusing terminology, right? Is Rod just simply does include t x C where full does conclude t even in different quantities.

spk_1:   2:54:28
But why do you come from the belief that very small trace of th E does help activate the CBD?

spk_0:   2:54:34
I think it all works together. It does absolutely complement each other. It's what it's how the plant was built. Interesting thing about the candy bar. The hemp plant is that, um, the cannabinoids. In a sense of like a defense mechanism, the turbines are like a defense mechanism. And so if you actually grow the plant a harsher environment, it actually builds more of these more potency. And because it builds more of these defenses to protect itself,

spk_1:   2:54:57
that makes a lot of sense.

spk_0:   2:54:58
Did when I started to understand how that's incredible, the plant just completely blew. And it's so funny. Even like my six years self, you hear me talking like fuck happened? Do what

spk_1:   2:55:07
for? For the For the almost decade I've known you, man Thio fully have this conversation with you right now and for you to be at the level of understanding about this the whole plant cannabis CBD it blows my mind, but you are coming. Everything that you have said, um makes 110% sense hits, fax and at the end, where I want you to talk about because when I when I tried this, the taste what? What is different about it?

spk_0:   2:55:40
So we're using fresh peppermint, and that's I can't say it's a secret. It's not something a little bunch, but we actually use the food scientists to develop the taste because the labs were having it wasn't their specialty, right? It's not the wheelhouse to necessarily do like a sensory thing with taste. Um, and taste is an interesting thing because everybody has different palette. And so we did a lot of testing. And since you're testing where you basically have lots people test it and get the different tastes and then you kind of lean towards a particular one and like you end up with the thing that the most people are gonna find appealing. So the taste of ours and which will find, is the brands that I find to be very effective in the market actually have the worst taste, their terrible. It's awful. No, absolutely not. Simply the best result.

spk_1:   2:56:23
I won't say names by yeah, one that I like a lot. It tastes like shit and almost tastes like barf. Yeah, and it works, but it tastes nasty. And so that, like people that try that I don't even know that it works. They probably like this fucking taste gross. I'm not even gonna give it a chance, which

spk_0:   2:56:40
is unfortunate but it's again. We have our eyes for a reason we ever noticed Reason we came out for a reason. Yeah. Taste buds are designed to give us, like, a

spk_1:   2:56:47
Q. Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. Why? Most of them taste like crap on dso getting a food scientist. Really kind of determined. Ah, what would be the best taste it for? You know, a huge spectrum of people eyes really important. And so you and Simon went through this whole process. Um, you know, what does it call the, You know, what is, You know,

spk_0:   2:57:10
the name of the brand. Is Jupiter okay? Yeah. And we I think just today Simon watched the final bottling. And then, ah, I should have my first set of samples. Ah,

spk_1:   2:57:23
by Friday. Dude, that's incredible. I, uh you know, when you sent me a sample, I didn't know what to expect, right? It's it's coming from you. I know that you put your whole heart into it, but I was like, It's CBD. This is still kind of weird, right? Uh, and then I remember trying first off the taste. Um, the consistency, the color, You know, uh, the one that I like a lot that I'm not gonna name. It's very dark. Ah, yours is very clear. So it's obviously because of this year to base extraction. I mean, I could be wrong, right? But it more times than not. When it's Theo to base extraction, the color level tends to be more clear.

spk_0:   2:57:59
There's lots of goes into the

spk_1:   2:58:00
assured. You would know a lot better than me.

spk_0:   2:58:02
And that's the thing. Because sometimes people do see color as a way to understand quality. I wouldn't services clear. No, no. This is a deep golden color, Yes, but it's also not fair to assume that color is an indication of quality. Thank you could sometimes be an indication of purity, and there may be a lot of things left over, and it may imply different parts of the plant were used. But there's there's so many things go into it that it's hard to just visually look and say this is because of this

spk_1:   2:58:26
at respect, right? Thank you for dropping knowledge on me. That would

spk_0:   2:58:30
be the opportunity, because that's the other thing is that I learned along the route. There's not a lot of time. People are busy again people and see where they're busy and so you don't get the chance to give them this deep explanation for these things. But even if you do, they often don't have the base toe, have it land properly with an understanding. And typically the only reason that you do it is that you're trying to demonstrate and understanding yourself. You're trying to give them an understanding that you understand it so they will trust you. Not that they actually under understand what you're saying. Absolutely. So I appreciate being able to talk about it in, like, a long form, of course, because I probably won't get the chance to do it. Many basically be like, Can we take a really good picture of it? And can we have someone who people trust talk about it, and then it will perform, and then that'll have to be good enough. And maybe on our website will have a deeper education. But I just don't I don't assume most people have the time or the interest to

spk_1:   2:59:25
dig deep. No, I get that. I get that. Um, but, you know, you coming on here, you know, sharing. Um, you know, exactly what you've worked so hard on. It just It makes me very proud of you. And I really do look forward to the future. So what? You know, Simon, um you know, got them kind of. What's the next steps?

spk_0:   2:59:45
Yeah. So, um, we had many things operating and parallel. So I think our packaging is actually the last thing gets done, which is a surprise that that's always rise along the way. Ah, but packaging will probably arrive a few days after the bottles arrive at our partner, our logistics partner, and, uh, then we'll be off the races. I mean, I have probably 100 people in my life that I want to try it, who somewhere familiar with CBD and already understand its power and its value and other people are total skeptics, which I love just as much. Um, like yourself. Like you weren't where I started. Yeah, that's what people keep sand. Dude, I don't want your essential,

spk_1:   3:0:26
but it's not. It's really

spk_0:   3:0:28
no, I know, but that whole multi level marketing is such a little thing. It just fits nicely to the whole bullshit tornado of what this stuff looks like. Uh, but again, when people experience it, it's it's a different understanding. So and I can only hope that over time because that's it will not be a process of me convincing every anybody of anything at any time. I will simply make it available. And when people are ready to have an experience because they teeter totter of hit the point where they're like I need to I need to try something. We'll be there

spk_1:   3:0:59
for for sure. And you know, I can only talk for my own experience, right? I've you know, I've, you know, getting use cannabis like almost my whole entire life. Um, but just me suffering from back issues and shit like that. Uh, I've had my fair share of experiences with CBD, and by far when I'm on a steady dose of quality C b d. My life is different. On a day to day basis, my back feels better. My joints feel better. My brain fog some clearer. My my stress levels do come down so I can only speak from first hand experience and, you know, as being one of my good friends that should I deal with us, get a day basis, but, um watching you do this and seeing it now, you know, just about to hit that point. Ah, you know, I wish you guys nothing but success. And I do appreciate you guys. You know, you guys are gonna be the first sponsor on my own show, and I'm happy to do that, man. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for believing in me. Um, and I haven't even launched yet, but you are the person that I trust most giving me the rial. Honest answer. And then you guys coming to me and saying that it just ah, it makes me feel good. So thank you.

spk_0:   3:2:15
Yeah. And as I said before, the indicators of success have a lot to do with, you know, experience and doing something and having a natural, maybe an instinctive understanding. And you have a natural instinct in understanding of people and an ability to connect with, um so I think that that is, that gives me confidence that you'll be successful. The other thing I learned this through a lot of hiring is that you cannot pay someone to be excited. Someone has to have that internal excitement naturally, or there has to be something about what they're doing that's causing them to be excited, Um, and going back to David again. He was really good at understanding that people will lose interest if they don't have a sense of ownership. And they don't have a sense of excitement and purpose and even, um, you know, understand why they're doing what they're doing. That always felt like that was somehow always in the air on. And so when it comes to this, I can see clearly that you're fucking excited. But it's also because it's fitting so clearly into your wheelhouse of what you're naturally good at. We always tend to get attracted to what we're good at, anyways, for sure. So I see this as being something that's as true potential. And with most things, awareness is the biggest question. So how do you know? How can the most amount of awareness be drawn to this? Is actually probably people sharing it for sure? Absolutely, absolutely. If people are enjoying the long form conversations which I'm a huge, I love long form conversation between people because we're doing less and less of it. Yes, we are social is making everybody very short very surface. See? Very like tic tac. You know, what's the What's the five second clip? But this deep exchange is rare, and even just listening to it, I think, has a has an impact on somebody's quality of life. Absolutely. It may be wrong of me to say that I think guys get more from it. No, it's gotta be wrong. No, it's no. I know guys communicate differently than women do, And guys communicate differently to women and women communicate differently to guys. And it's a generalization. And I have many awesome examples in my life where that doesn't line up. I have a guy like friendships with girls, but there is something that's very unique about a two hour or three hour conversation between two people and having the ability to listen to that through all the way.

spk_1:   3:4:28
Absolutely. You know, I I personally have gotten so much from listening to different podcasts and long form conversations with different unique people. And, you know, there is nothing wrong about saying men and women are different, you know, off the course. Ah, weaken. You know, uh, meet in the middle and do that. But at the end of the day. We are different, biologically different, you know? Ah, And so I don't think saying these things were wrong. It's not because, uh I'm a sexist your sex sex? No. Fuck, no, it has nothing to do with that. It's just, you know, speaking facts. So ah, and that's all you know, That's one thing I know about you is you speak fax. And so, uh, kind of bringing it back to the CBD is like, this is fax, man, this is Ah, this is huge. And when people, you know, listen to this where they're going to be able to find it, Yeah,

spk_0:   3:5:24
get jupiter dot com is the website and will be primarily ah, direct to consumer business. Um, partly That's because, uh, it's expensive to make this product because it can only be growing at certain times. It takes a lot of product because we're only using a small portion of the plant to make the the in consumable. So because of that, it's expensive. Um, And to keep the margin to keep the prices low as possible, we have to protect the margin as much as we can, not to get too much in the business side for sure, doesn't leave a lot of room to use distribution channels. It would be great if we can figure out a way to work with retailers or to work with salons, for that matter. But for the time being, it's most likely only going to be found on Get jupiter dot com. And it's also important that people understand the Amazon currently does not sell CBD. It sells hemp oil. I said. A lot of people are buying their CBD on Amazon and not understanding that it is not safe. Mediators. Hemp oil very different. There's no CBD in it. It will have no effect. Think that you that you, you know, we're expecting

spk_1:   3:6:29
Thank you so much for saying that's crazy. It's

spk_0:   3:6:31
because all over it actually says, Reduce the stress that it did. It did

spk_1:   3:6:33
it all the same stuff, but it's just not really it's not really a and he had. Whenever Amazon decide to sell CBD, I have no fricking.

spk_0:   3:6:43
There is a reason, and it's because it is illegal to sell over 0.3%. Most states okay, and so Amazon cannot possibly test all the products that is being sold and So if you're like no, trust us, it's below 0.3%. They're not taking the risk now. So there's their rule. Is no nothing. That is actually, uh, hemp derived in the sense of CBD or C B Goth years like that, Hemp oil is the only thing that can be used. Differences. It's basically like avocado oil.

spk_1:   3:7:14
It's not. It's nothing. It's fake. It's not real. It's not. Yeah, it's Ah, it's bits, bullshit. At the end of the day and that is the difference between you guys. You guys are straight facts, you guys a real product quality product, USDA organic, which is which is huge. And the quality of stuff that we put inside our body is so important.

spk_0:   3:7:33
And I don't like heavy sales Pull taught me that as much as my my route of my existence for most of my life was cold calling a walking into a place to me like you don't know me. Maybe don't want me here, but I got something cool to show you. There we go and I just love that it doesn't it's that's the old school stuff. Ah, what I much prefer now is to be um, present at the right time with the right experience. So in that light, we we've worked really, really hard to create a sample. Ah, I don't mind telling you. That is there's no margin here. Like we're, like, trying very hard not to lose money on every single cell in the sample. Um, so we're managed and maybe a little early to say this, but right now, we're trying to bring it to market for $20. Okay? And it's a two week supply because two weeks is about where the body starts to fully adapt. And this is again a general could. Every single body's gonna be different, for sure. But generally speaking at the dosage that at the dosage at the serving that we're providing into two weeks is where most people will start to get that result where they'll be like, Oh, this is This is awesome. This is cool. Um, well, yeah, we're shooting to get that in there. At 20 bucks,

spk_1:   3:8:50
I find that I find that incredible because you're allowing individuals to try. I mean, I know it's either it's definitely making money. It's it's just very, very slim. And I know that But what you're doing is you're opening up the door for people to try it. And so whatever price range you do get it at, um it's still letting people try it for that to week basis, which is really important, because ah, you know, not a lot of people are gonna go out and just, you know, try this,

spk_0:   3:9:22
right? I thought even about myself in my own spent $89. Now I'm gonna my kind of maybe, even if someone who I really trust I'm like, Can you just give me some of yours? Because I don't want to have an $89.129 dollar bottle of this sit in my bathroom. You

spk_1:   3:9:36
for something bad, you know, potentially not gonna work. Great thing for you. Exactly. So now you're opening up the doors for more people to try it, which they do. And once I know once they try Ah, Jupiter, they're going to If they've ever tried CBD before, they're going to notice a clear difference, you know. But quality, um is by far in my opinion, the best. And I'm saying that from just me trying at myself, trying so many different kinds before. So I really look forward to this, just kind of, you know, rolling out, hitting it hard. And I'm just really pleased to be able to talk about it more, more. I appreciate it.

spk_0:   3:10:13
It means a lot to me. It's it means a lot. I think again, getting back to human intent and potential and maybe our tagline, and we're kind of we're still early as brands, so a lot of things could change, and I'm really wanting to see how people respond to it emotionally. I know like the response will be physical, pretty awesome. But I want to see how people like the pope community guides what pull Pride is so much. And I think that's beautiful because there's no bullshit marketing. There's no made up slogans or near that crab. It's like it's it's a fucking great product and it works and people love it, and then they show it and thats pull, pry it, and that's why it's been so successful in why there's so much good energy behind it. And I want Jupiter to be that the same thing in the sense of the people who use it truly. love it. Um it gives him maybe a new potential in their life. And they enjoy life much more because that's Simon I As much as we work, we constantly remind each other like, hey, take a break and enjoy life. We're not here forever. Maybe, But we're not here. Were. But But in the time that we are definitely here, it's gotta be enjoyable to a certain degree. And even for me, that's an alien type idea because I so enjoy the struggle because of the feeling that comes after the struggle of accomplishment. Um, but life really, really should be enjoyed.

spk_1:   3:11:40
Life's a blink of an eye, man. You know, we're here, we're gone. And so this time that we're here, Uh, you know, although it is up and down, we do have to enjoy We have to take a step back. We have toe just kind of, you know, sometimes take a break And, um, you know, just do things that are better for ourselves. Because when it's all said and done, you know what's it all about? You. And so you know, as we kind of wrap this up, Tyler, you know, I I just kind of look at your life from where you came from, Your parents being 17 18 years old, struggling their ass is off to raise Thies three Children, Um and and then you grow up in your freaking You're picking the corn and you're doing all these jobs up and down and then, you know, in high school you do baseball, which kind of gets you competitive and you're moving forward, and then you get the freaking college and you know, you. But you become that vice president, the political bullshit, and then you kind of take this chance and opportunity, eventually find yourself out in l. A. And what you've been able to do is you've struggled your ass off. You work so frickin hard, harder than pretty much anyone I know. There's like, three people, and you are one of those three that by far worked the frickin hardest. And now, after you know, over a decade, I think it's been over a decade that you've been out here. You've gotten to this point where this this is what it's all about, man. Like literally, This is what it's all about. Yeah, You enter. Go! Yeah, you did the pope. Right. But what you've created with Simon is just that fucking it's what you're gonna look back at your life. And I truly believe that you're gonna be the most proudest because what your product is going to bring for everyday people. It's beautiful, man. It really is. That's your idea and

spk_0:   3:13:34
what it did for me I wanted to do for other people. And it's a simple is that and, you know, my my low level of emotions doesn't allow me to get, you know, I don't It doesn't give me a little I may feel overly important. It almost feels, in a way, like there's a responsibility that I have, because I have had in my Sensei again won the lottery with my parents. And so from day one, I've had this responsibility to do something good and in purposeful and meaningful. And then also there's, you know, that that gives me the happiest that I can feel is to be working on something that gives me purpose. Exactly. And there's there's there's casualties along the way. You know, there's there's a lot of incompleteness in my life because I've worked so hard and I recognize that and I've maintained a lot of friendships with people who have seen that up close. Um, but at the end of the day, it's, you know, there's purpose in what we're doing and that is, like, again like you. You know, you put it in really broad terms and very like, huge perspectives, which is at the end of your life. When you look back, I will not have very many regrets. Boom. And the more good that I can do for other people. I think that's the stuff that will end up being the most appreciative. That that's how I spent my time,

spk_1:   3:14:52
for sure. I totally see. It's freaking clear his day. And, you know, you are a direct reflection of your parents. You know, you hitting that lottery man on and just showing them everything. If I was your mom or your dad, I'd be so fucking proud of you. I know being one of your boys. I am so proud of

spk_0:   3:15:12
you. He told me all the time.

spk_1:   3:15:13
Yes, of course. No, no shit. No shit. And feel that so that in and just keep on doing it, man. Um, Thank you again, Tyler. Thank you. for everything. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for believing me. You know anyone listening to this? Go check it out. Get jupiter dot com, baby. Yeah? To get in a couple months, you were gonna have a good one.