A Brief Story From The Marketing Genius And CEO Of Digital Niche Agency Called Mr. Jason Fishman

Brock Goldberg:   0:00
All right. All right, arrive. How's everyone doing tonight? Thank you so much for turning to the podcast. I really want to thank you guys for listening and getting this thing grooving and rolling. If you guys could do me a quick favor, make sure to subscribe to the podcast. Review the podcast like it shared with your friends and family. Follow me on Instagram at back to your story on Let's just get this thing going. So I want to take a quick moment. Talk about our sponsor. That's Jupiter. The stress alleviating Tink show. It's the best stuff, guys. I take it on a daily basis, especially for me. You know, the ups and downs of life really kind of just helps take the edge off especially. I noticed it at the end of a long day there. USDA Organic certified. I cannot talk about it more. It's something that I share with all my friends and family, and they're doing something special for you guys. It's called the Jupiter Journey. It's a two week supply, and, uh, it's traditionally 29 bucks. But you guys, you guys gonna get if a $19 that's $10 off go get it. Now go to get jupiter dot com, Use the code story time. And who do we have on tonight? This is a near and dear friend of mine. I've known him for ever. I mean, I swear, I think like 20 years. That's Mr Jason Fishman. Ah, he's one of the most talented human beings I know. He's a marketing genius. It is so cool to see where we came from and where he is at today. You guys minds are going to be frickin blown and know There's a lot of great information in this. It was an amazing podcast to do a big shout out to Mr Jason. Fish Moon. All right, guys, let's get to it. From the Land of Mystery with dreams become reality. Always listening to stories from the past, the present and the future. This is back. Jason Fishman is here. Dude, how are you doing?

Jason Fishman:   2:09
I'm awesome. Life is beautiful. 2020. It's all happening

Brock Goldberg:   2:13
here. That is. Is it weird for you to say that it's 2020?

Jason Fishman:   2:18
Not really just kind of going with it. It's New decade. I understand it's the pretense for the next 10 years and it's gonna keep evolving in terms of my perspective on it. But it's there and

Brock Goldberg:   2:29
it's ah, you know, every year up until this point, it was like it was never anything to me. But when I started writing out 2020 and I saw it like on paper, I was like, Oh, my God, it just I don't know. It kind of tripped me out because I grew up always like hearing about, like, the Roaring Twenties, the roaring twenties. And then you look back at a certain time and and now it's 2020 and 100 years from now people will be saying the same shit. I'm still waiting for my hoverboard whenever that Uh, hey, man, we're getting close. I don't know about a hoverboard, but, ah, the technology that we have today. I mean, it's just frickin mind blowing. It's mind blowing. Yeah, yeah. So you and I have known each other for 20 years. Better part of my life. Kind of crazy to think about. It's so weird. How well do you know? I'm 33 33 years old, and you're supposed to

Jason Fishman:   3:20
make people guess when they ask your age, pal. just to tell you.

Brock Goldberg:   3:22
I don't know. Should I after any of the answer if I just took a second? Because we're the same exact age. I've always felt like you were older than me, though.

Jason Fishman:   3:29
Yeah, I act much older, More mature? No, no, I was great older than you, Um, when we went to high school together. But you obviously acted, you know, older for your age. And that's how we got along.

Brock Goldberg:   3:42
Yeah, definitely. It's Ah, it's so crazy about fast time flies to think that we're 33 years old now. Um, and I've known you since high school. It just seems like this. And the older you get, the faster it goes growing up in Santa Clarita. See this damn fly growing up in Santa Clarita? Um, when you were younger, you've always been the business type person. I mean, it's just you've always been an entrepreneur of sorts. Was that something instilled into you by your parents, or is it something that you've just learned along the way?

Jason Fishman:   4:18
You know, when you talk to CEOs or various types of entrepreneurs, they normally sold candy as a kid or lemonade or something. It's an inherent drive. I see numbers. You know, like, I wanted to correct you when he said 20 years and say it's actually been 18 and I, you know, I mean, I could feel the numbers I could tell you if you spend X amount of dollars Hominy. How much budget that is for the day, The month, the year, 10 years? What type of return you'd have to see to make it all come together and make sense. It's just you see it, you see opportunity, it comes around like that. Um, yeah, my parents definitely brought me up to be understanding of what the dollar is, how to use it, how Thio operate within the system. How did her talk to teachers? If you have a late assignment, how to manage your allowance and therefore, you know, your holdings at the end of the month, so you know, that was part of it. It's not like they sat down, had a chalkboard or anything like that. But my dad always put in his two cents. My mom always made sure I was, you know, acting the right way in that regard. So, you know, it's combination of everything, but ah Yeah, I have fun with that at this age, will tell you that

Brock Goldberg:   5:30
that's awesome. Man. I when you're talking about numbers and your parents, you know, really speaking to you about that. It made me think of one of my host and actually the guy that created my intro Ah, and does all my editing. His name's Steven Disease, 26 years old, and his parents, his dad grew up, grew him upon Ah, thought philosophy called the Bank of Dad. And it's just really about instilling, you know, saving for the future. And you know, these different types of learning tools that you know, for most kids, we don't learn in high school. Uh, and it's something that I see an individual's when their parents kind of past these things down along to them down to them. Ah, the type of person they are years later. You growing up? Who would you say was some of the people that you would look up to when you were younger?

Jason Fishman:   6:26
I mean, I wasn't, you know, reading books on Warren Buffett as a kid or getting like that, uh, taking it further back is baseball. I think he played baseball is definitely, definitely so, uh, you know this video of me from the time I could talk, you know, talking about my favorite players. That Dodgers was that the 1988 world Syriza's Ah, baby And my heroes were definitely in that in that regard, it was everything my obsessive qualities would be in context of sports and primarily around baseball that later turned skateboarding. Okay, some around third grade, specifically fifth grade. That became a big part of my identity, which led the path for later my life in early stages and career. But yeah, that's where my head was at. Music became a big thing for me at that point, too. If I was in skating, I was at home watching TV and ah, that lead into you know First is like alternative music fans that used to be punk bands. And we're making music videos back in 1996 ish 94 through 90 seven's when I really first started watching it. So think about mid nineties music, some gangster rap in there. Well, to, uh, looked up to people like that for a minute as a young little kid, and you think you're older than you are. But, punk, I mentioned hardcore metal became Maur of my music interest in junior high high school. Um, snowboarding is a big part of my life as a theme, but that really didn't become the case toe like high school. Her first, uh, right after high school, I moved to Mammoth for a season and, you know, got good at that whole thing made a lot of friends still have people that I travel and write with today itself. And, ah, you know, some of my hair is at that point in those older the people I respect, the people I'd actually get a little nervous to meet in person were snowboarders versus, you know, actors or actresses or anything like that. Awesome. They were super humans to me at that point and would actually get a ride with someone directly. But yeah, it evolved. And then much later, college was just, you know about college wasn't looking up to so many people outside of it at that point. But afterwards it became entrepreneurs. It became successful business leaders, consultants, people who advise on entrepreneurs such as Gary V er, Tim Tim Ferriss knew Patel some of those guys, Um, I look up to in terms of speaking and packaging content that could really make an impact on projects on small businesses lives. So, you know, it's it's coming full

Brock Goldberg:   9:13
spectrum from it has it definitely has. I mean, as you're speaking, I kind of hear this evolution of, you know, it started out his baseball and then evolves into skateboarding music. And then it gets into snowboarding, and then it evolves into business. What was that kind of, you know, dynamic shift if you look back because for the longest time, it was very sports oriented. But then you hit college and it evolves into business. I mean, obviously I've known you for a long time, so I know you've always been business minded, but for the people you're looking up to, it's definitely not for a good portion of your life. It's not business oriented. There's something that happened. Can you kind of pinpoint that by any means?

Jason Fishman:   9:52
Yeah, I stopped trying to be a pro snowboarder

Brock Goldberg:   9:55
baseball player, so looked at people who were doing things

Jason Fishman:   9:59
that I could ultimately participate in. No, I mean, it's all a matter of what you think is cool, if you will. Ah, what you respect? What? You look up too. So as a kid, you know, with conventional sports later on with hates an alternative sports or anything like that. But stuff that would get you going a little bit more. A little scarier, more risk involved. Sure, for that reason more impressive. So, you know, and just the whole, uh, another fun word that I don't like using lifestyle behind it. Um, it was just Ah, it was something that I enjoyed and look up to you. So that's why I was in that form. You know, in high school, if you'd asked me what I want to do when I was older would be around skateboarding. Hey, I want to create a skate shop start escape brand that runs through it. Have lower margins, be able to distribute nationally internationally, have a dope skate team. You know, of all the top professionals and everything in college, it would have been something along those lines. But with snowboarding, uh, you know, getting into my career, Um I mean, I went to Santa Barbara, was a was a party school growing out of all of that and putting the energy Alice putting into fun. But at that point redirecting towards career, I got into marketing as, uh, which is You know, what I am. I wanted to find myself as a marketer. Ah, as action sports consultant, So is taking my passions and advising on them for brands at 22. And and that's when you get some of your most creative ideas, like 20 to 25 even been shaped by the world. Yet you're just thinking, Hey, what would be awesome to put together for this company or for this initiative? So started working with an agency called MMC A worked on accounts like Vulcan Stone 96 Point Energy worked on a video sharing platform kind like you, too. But first, no skate surf that was later acquired based on the success of some of the marketing initiatives were rolling out. And I was brought in to add that, you know, strategic expert perspective to these types of brands, to the audiences were going after creating things that were authentic and that would resonate between the brand and the user's, as it's called digitally. So, given that success there and again operating off things I knew and had been living for have the better part of my existence. At that point, I was asked Hey, this is great. Do you want to focus on these other accounts That target Gen y Millennials were called General I back then. Okay, So worked on a Snoop Dog album. Worked on all types of fashion campaign starting on the fashion conferences, trade shows things in green vertical, our eco conscious. We're talking back 2009.

Brock Goldberg:   12:52
Yes, my media creative right back in those days. Exactly. And that's so crazy. You know, I remember when I moved back to California because I lived in Florida for quite some time and I was doing the Dream Team. Right? Has that music. It's like that. That was right around that time. I forgot about that article Thio bring back up here. Yeah, yeah, it's it's definitely, you know, at that time I was totally super focused on music, music, music, electro hip hop and trying to make it in that. Sure, And when we had reconnected, um, you were working in marketing and that's kind of the path that you were going down and I was really surprised to see everything that you were doing at that point. Um, there was kind of like this big gap in time where, you know, I had moved to Florida for five or six years, right? Andi, we hadn't talked for a while. Um, but I do kind of want to dial it back, and then we'll move forward, grow growing up your family life. Ah, your your your parents. I always kind of looked up to everything that was going on with you as an individual, your household, because I kind of grew up in this super crazy, uh, house. And then I go over to your house and we just had this different feeling. How much of your life? Rubber guards. Every family has their ups and downs. Right? But how much of your life do you attribute to who you are as a person today from the way that your parents raised? You sure,

Jason Fishman:   14:23
Um I mean, you know, we looked good from the outside, and my parents definitely instill values. I mean, that I repeat in both my actions and communications daily today, but, um, you know, I went through, you know, and up called a transition from being a kid to a teenager. Uh, just as, ah, ruffles. Anyone did, in the sense that I was grounded a lot off listening to all the rules, I was enjoyed family time, but, ah, you know, there was, ah, whole transitional period there. And, you know, my parents played a huge role. Um, again in my adult life, which happened again around 22 1st getting involved in the career first, you know, becoming a whole adult were really able to connect at a different level. Where when I was 13. Yes. You know, toe 18. I was trying not to get in trouble and wasn't able to open up to him about everything. And we'd go on family trips. Ah, have dinners together. You know, most nights, everything, um, was solid. I was enjoyed it, but there was always that element of control.

Brock Goldberg:   15:34
Your being a kid, though. Yes, your

Jason Fishman:   15:36
butt. But no. I mean, my my parents, you know, made sure I said, thank you every time I got out of someone's car and, you know, invited friends over and, you know, made sure never go to a party empty handed and bring a gift and you know when to study for tests and make sure I closed out the semester. Well, like they're always able to mold me into the person that they believe was proper for society. They told me this later on, and, uh, my dad always said something of Ah, hey, you think I'm being tough now, but, you know, once you're probably right out of college like you're going to say, Wow, Dad, you've really gotten smarter in the past seven years. Really? It's just your perspective. The things you're fighting, you later appreciate. And, yeah, there are a source of wisdom for me where I could call them at any point and get a you know, uh, organic read on something. That's awesome. Yeah, my mom with I've ever found out. When leaders My mom's actually smarter than my dad around social topics. My dad definitely in business. I've always known that, but they complement each other well, and ah, yeah, it's definitely a big part of who I am in that regard. I don't really wanna talk about a professional, so it's interesting to dive in on that here. It's cool

Brock Goldberg:   16:48
for sure. Absolutely. Man, I think that, uh parents play a huge role into an individual's life the way that they grow up to the person that they become. One thing that I did like about you as well as I remember, even in my own household, there'd be times where I wasn't home, for whatever reason, and I'd get home and I would see you sitting there talking to my dad, you know? And it never made sense to me until years later. Ah, why you're doing that? He's just sharing stories, war stories, whatever it was. But it was the respect. It was the person that your parents instilled into you. Yeah, um that gave you that level of respect for, you know, my father. Ah, which I found amazing. And I talked about it. Still to this day, I I I appreciate that from the bottom of my heart. Um, So your parents, right when you're younger, it's hard to see the things that they're trying to instill in you. But as you get older, you realize that looking back at your younger self uh, would there be something that you could share? Thio. You know, younger kids just tryingto make a life for themselves. man Because people don't realize or did the younger generation doesn't realize, uh, until they get older. If there was something that you could say to your younger self, what would it be good playing

Jason Fishman:   18:13
around? Just keep your head down and do what

Brock Goldberg:   18:15
you're supposed to. D'oh! That's it, right? I don't

Jason Fishman:   18:18
have all these doubts on wire, you know, putting in the work, like, just just do it. Like, I would have stayed more committed to the system, if you will. High school, college onward. I mean, ultimately, it would change my whole path, but, you know, just saying that I time is spent more time fighting authority than actually just again working within the structure and being able to be as effective as possible through that, Um, and also just stop stressing, You know, like, today I'm you know, I hate when people say they're so busy and all that shit. But if you look at my itinerary for the day, uh, eight conference calls and meetings before this been talking all day, uh, another 100 emails and messages that will be responding to you throughout the course of the day. I try not to let things go across my desk twice. Okay? I don't want them lingering. I don't wanna have to. You know, I have to do this later. I just boom, boom, boom's. Knock it all out. If I had approached my childhood teenage, early adult years like that, I would have spent less time procrastinating or figure out why I don't do something of the emotions around it and just knocked it out. Just got it done. That's key, you know, And, uh, if if I could transfer that to my younger self could be in a sitting different role. But then again, my learnings my, my, you know, pathway that I've chosen has brought me tea. Oh, pretty awesome place for sure. And look at it is just the beginning. So no regret around that. But if I was talking to someone else would be something along those lines, for sure. Don't think about it. Just create a list for the day, Knock it out and move on.

Brock Goldberg:   19:57
Procrastination is huge, man. I mean, so many people do it, so to hear ah, someone like yourself. Ah! 100 emails, eight conference calls. Uh, this that and the other. And you don't want things to come across your desk twice. To most people, that sounds fucking insane. All right, what is it about you that says I just don't want that, you know? Because it was there a switch that turned on eyes their time in your life that you can attribute to that. What is it?

Jason Fishman:   20:27
Anything less than that is boring to me. Oh, um, if I'm not like going to the airport every week, if I'm not going to meetings all day long if I'm not involved in a cz talk more about a company later on in 15 to 30 projects at a time, which is the minimum of clientele we take on actually moving those numbers up for this year again, I feel like I'm not living the day to the fullest. Uh, every day I'm dying,

Brock Goldberg:   20:55
it's true. A little bit closer. I

Jason Fishman:   20:58
got to take the most value as I can. You know, personal circumstances. I've seen people disappear overnight, and ah, got valued as much as possible. All you gots the president. So I try to stack my president to be as impactful as I can, And, uh, I also, uh, I don't struggle of satisfaction, but I always want more. So once I had an accomplishment, soak it in. I congratulate my team or, you know, whoever's around me within three days, three months, Max, I'm over it and ready to move on to the next thing. But that drive is how I'm able to continue to position myself for the next levels. Um, and again, look at what I'm doing is just the beginning, the goals I have for this years ago. So I have the next five years. The next 10 years are massive, and they all require daily schedules that make what I'm doing now feel small. You know, like I don't like when people say they're too busy that you tired like that. That's all just perspective. If you have too much on your plate and you get a bigger plate game of handing off hats. So you know I'm not working within things and working on them. So I get something in how to allocate it so that, you know, it's assigned to get to a point of effectiveness and ah yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I'm just hanging out every day.

Brock Goldberg:   22:16
I love that I love that because you do what you love. Yeah, there is a huge amount of the population in the face of this planet that can not say that.

Jason Fishman:   22:27
And as you and I both know finding something that makes you happy and running with it and giving it your

Brock Goldberg:   22:33
all, um, that's the type of life that we should be lived living. And unfortunately, that's not what happens to most people. Um, you know, to hear your drive in your motivation, it's just it's fucking awesome. And it blows my mind away. And it's so cool to see the person that you have become, uh, and we will I do want to know what? I'm just trying to, you know, look back at your past and then bring it to the present. Right? Um, so, growing up in Santa Clarita, right? Where was that time in your life? All right. You moved out for the first time and you went to Mammoth. This was after high school. That was that first taste of, like, initial freedom. I'm on my own. Do you remember that? Remember those feelings? What did that feel like?

Jason Fishman:   23:24
There's one of the best chapters in my life. Okay, I am moved a mammoth Mammoth Mountain generally has the best snow in North America, and it was their second best season at the time. I work in a snowboard shop on the mountains, and my friends were getting jobs, rentals and, you know, food and beverage. Things like that. Well, selling snowboards and working with reps going ride breaks every day. Right deep. How? Ah, you know what? I gotta throw flips and jump off big cliffs, and it's so full of, you know, Big King trails. And it was ah, was living. It was a mecca for the sport at the time. To grenade gloves was huge. They're operating out of there. All the biggest writers could be seen in Maine Park in any given day. I lived employee housing. My at neighbors were from Australia and New Zealand, South America, Europe. It was, you know, going off every night. Ah, is great. Is one of the best times of my life because of where my head was that, um I was, uh, fully, you know, financially independent for the first time, you know, having my own place don't parties cleaning up like being there. You know, the whole balance of everything would start going on trips to other places and, you know, fill the car with people from other countries and just surprise him and play tour guide and, you know, have a blast. It was it was good times. Went to Hawaii that summer with some friends and kind of backpacked around with skateboard and, ah, you know, just just explored it was again before other types of commitments that emerges later points in your life. Um, that was that man or even in your radar.

Brock Goldberg:   25:00
Yeah, that's so cool. I mean, this at this point in your life, you're, what, 18 years old? Eight years old. This was before college.

Jason Fishman:   25:09
Technically, take a semester off, okay, before I get out to Santa Barbara.

Brock Goldberg:   25:13
All right, So before you went out to Santa Barbara because I remember you in Santa Marta Red, we had that Brian Bell concert, and it was just freaking koto party. I did some stories I can't repeat on on that. That was good times right there. That was good times, man. And you know, I I look back at at times in my childhood, right? And I hold onto them near and dear. And as I sit here and, you know, talk with you and I see your face light up of that moment in your life that was just Hey, just fucking awesome, right? Um, but I always go back. Life is a blink of an eye. Like you said, every single day we're dying, right? And that's what pushes you drive. You have that motivation. So you leave Mammoth, you go to Santa Barbara. How long were you going there? And did you major in business?

Jason Fishman:   26:02
Yeah, I started in business, okay. And that I enjoyed, like my business 101 classes that encompassed everything Once I got to some of the accounting classes. Although I said I see numbers, which I do, uh, it just became, you know, repetition to me during the 12 step accounting cycle. Economics. It's funny because I do a lot of this on a daily basis now, in terms of what I have to look at and approve economics in terms of some of the digital currencies or trading. Yeah, but I just wasn't fully interested in it. Meanwhile, my marketing classes I loved and to me, that was why the biggest brands were able to obtain their positioning within their given industries. That was the creative aspect of business that was at the forefront of revenue performance. So I just knew, like, all right, this is where I was, where I wanna be, you know, like all that other stuff school. But I wasn't the person to be, you know, a financial countin. I got that. You know, I wasn't an economic like guy as much as like, hey, I want to hae people up. Sales is a transfer of energy marketing is sales on a mass level. And I like getting that type of mind control out to 1,000,000 people and pushing them to an end result that drives revenue and, most importantly, growth for organizations that are making a positive impact. So I started seeing that in myself while being in school. Ah, it actually wasn't straight marketing. It was communications and persistent in marketing. Okay, the way it all shapes out and was fascinated by why people do the things that they do back to the whole mind control thing, which I thrown loosely. But it is it's true. It is true. Uh, so you know, mass communications uh uh, inner in your sexual communications in between, uh, how you market the different genders, All types of mass media, communications, sociology, psychology, I These are all courses. I took it. I just I was so intrigued by how to create a response of another human's mind, which again is what marketing.

Brock Goldberg:   28:15
And that's exactly what it is. It to the bare bones. It's exactly what it is. Yes, and And as you stripped away the layers, you started to really find yourself right because you started out, you know, majoring in one thing. But then, you know, as you went on, it turned into something else, right? It's like it's like a flower. It's about, you know, blooming. Um, there's this big, you know, talk in today's society about college, about school. And this is something that I ask everyone. What is your thoughts on it? Because when I started the podcast, I had one thought, and now I have another thought, but I would like to know what your thought behind school is. And I'm not talking about people going to school for a doctor. Science like a scientist, obviously. Right. But what about someone that wants to major in social media, right? May Ah, major in block J major and whatever. What is your thoughts on that?

Jason Fishman:   29:09
I mean, college is great. I can give you all types of perspectives on it. I've been close friends, um, orm or with people who work heavily in academia, I myself, myself speaking at, uh, universities regularly l a u S c l love you. A whole list of other schools have stuff scheduled for this year. Education is important. I do not think it's for everyone. I think you need to be committed and no. Hey, like I'm going to do this, not going there and half ass it, uh, I think you should take the type of commitment to anything you do at that. But particularly with your education. So if you wanna do social media for first of all, what you want to do is going to evolve. What I do didn't exist 10 years ago, and, uh, you know, the same is true for people in school today. I think it's a great format to learn how to think, learn how to process, learn how to operate under structures. So show up here taking this information. Do these assignments complete this by the end of semester? Whether that's some type of final or, you know, document that you're submitting, um, you know, pick the right course has picked the right professors. Ah, line with the right network. The right individuals and contacts while you're there, get involved. Join the clubs. Uh, you know, I mentioned digital assets. We do a lot in the Blockchain crypto currency, and some of the most intelligent people I know in that space started in the industry leading their schools Blockchain club, and we're building funds and producing significant returns for faculty members to parents toe, you know, life changing. And everything just snowballed from there to where now they're major market makers in this space. Ana, tell you more about that means on a later time. But you get the idea like you can really build yourself there. Don't miss out opportunities. I was gonna create a snowboard club that I didn't do it as a niche thing. I was gonna create other types of organizations that I didn't. I was preoccupied with my own social life versus actually what was getting out of the experience was amazing things you could do. Also, businesses will interact with you. We have a, uh, an internship program that we've built with some of the universities here in L. A. And they get school credits. We have speakers come in. There's a full curriculum that they go through. We welcome that. But beyond that, if student reaches out to me and says, Hey, this is what I'm doing What's your advice? I make a point to respond on that conference. Is students come up to me and ask me questions afterwards. Same type of deal. And if you're confident if you go out of your way to convey what you're doing in the world and how the other side can support, you'll be surprised by who wants to play that role in your life. Absolute. So you know there's a lot that could be done with school school, like anything else is a tool vehicle. It's all a matter of how you use it if you just show up classes and leave and, you know, like hang out with your friends that you're the new outside of that and look to the diplomat, the end, that's all. You're gonna get your diploma uh, there's a 1,000,000 other things you get from school. It can be used as an amazing thing. Um, that being said to show the other side of the argument, I don't have requirements at my company. I'm the last interview, the handshake interview. I have to go through all these different processes, but around certain schooling. And to tell you the truth, I've hired people from the best universities that for lack of a better word that I feel like saying here they they suck. Okay, You know, I've hired people who have not gone to college or have gone to, you know, Maura of, ah, commuter schools and then outstanding in comparison to other candidates. Um, you know, there is that underlying talent there is that underlying adaptability and more importantly, that commitment. And, uh, it's so true. He's so true, those qualities can surpassed a strong diploma. Uh, it's it's all comes down execution in anything. So I know people who went to the best schools that, you know, hop around from job interview to job interview and others that are constantly figuring out what they want to do. Um, because of how many options that they have and how much they're producing financially, how much they're producing in the world And, you know, trying to figure out where to invest their time. Who went toe, you know, no school.

Brock Goldberg:   33:42
I love that. Yeah, I loves

Jason Fishman:   33:44
other qualities. Look,

Brock Goldberg:   33:44
you don't know for sure this fly beyond. Yeah, You know, I like that. You said both sides of the argument when I started the podcast. I was, like, just so one sided on the view. And I'm the type person like you can You can help shape my opinion if you have. Ah, great. Um, educated response. And I take my time and I'll look into it. You can change my mind on pretty much anything that being said, Speaking from both sides, I respect that more than anything. And for me, it is that experience that individuals get. Ah, starting out that next chapter in your life right after hides high school. Um, where you can still make mistakes, right where life isn't just smacking you right in the face. And you can learn from those mistakes. But it is that experience, like everything that you just talked about. So thank you for sharing just raw real honest truth about that. All right, so we're kind of working up at you, you high school college, Santa Barbara graduate. What the heck happened? Um, after you graduated, or did you already have a job lined up? Were you nervous and confused? Did you or what happened? Did you not graduate? What? What happened?

Jason Fishman:   34:59
I basically went to a very transitional point in my life and, uh, got the exact job I was looking for in terms of, you know, action sports for marketing agency. As I told you, my, uh my passion at that point for marketing Ah, as I you know, outlined that if you asked me to start a business at that point would be in snowboard Industry III in action sports, not surf. So, you know, could have looked at further schooling. Could have looked at various types of opportunities, but I was handed what I wanted, You know, you buy the university has got everything that it wasn't like an overnight thing was actually months in the making. And, you know, it wasn't a comfortable point of life for me. Um, well, dug in too much detail, but it was it was actually one of toughest points of my life in the sense of I don't have the structure, um, how to go to this big transition of, like, again party school Thio like the business world. And, ah, you know how to stop paying out some friends for a while that later reconnected with had to, you know, really like, drill down and figure out how I was going to spend my time. Ah, where I was going to invest my efforts, what I wanted to do long term and, ah, you know, this is very difficult, but that's what makes greatness. You know, Going through that struggle is what allows you to really appreciate what you have, you know, and had some low points in there. But again, once everything started working for me, uh, I didn't want to let it go. I knew I was never going back to not knowing what I was doing. Or, you know, having question marks in that regard whatsoever as you're trying to figure out who you are as an adult in the world, um, again, I use fact like I was never going back. I was never having those feelings go through my head again. And you really looked at my twenties as the time in my life, this crucial, crucial point that I would be building a foundation to support the rest of my life with and and that's what I did. And it wasn't easy. And there was self doubt. At times there was people directly providing doubt. Ah, and being aggressive about it. Ah, you know, be of age working against you in your early twenties and me, Johnny's. I think I grew a beard for the first time, that point. And, you know, it was like 22 23 trying to consult these business owners. And they're like, How old are you?

Brock Goldberg:   37:36
That's crazy, right? Like a student with around

Jason Fishman:   37:40
here. But I mean, that would have to be shaped by the perspective I was able to provide and, most importantly, the results that my recommendations later produced. Yes, and that reinvest the trust. But it was it was tough. And then you move on to bigger roles and go to different companies, and he can hire. But there's always someone who, you know, is expecting Thio to make more within your business, get more attention and looks to use. The threat is working against you. Until that shift occurs, people start listening to differently at that point. Usually it's in your thirties, for sure, and more so in your forties, which obviously not there yet, but ah man, I I had a work hard, but again, I really trans incident. All the energy I put into my teenage fun and college like good times into work into my career. Yes, I would, you know, be falling asleep and 11 wake up at midnight with an idea and start typing for the next two hours. Love that and be able to present something and get everyone excited at the office and have all this energy. And that made all the difference. And as I was Tony, that 22 to 25 of creativity. It's only had a lot of my most out of the box concepts and thoughts and applied to business models and things that that did very well in some cases for other people. But, you know, I try to keep that talent around me now for those reasons, that's smart. But, you know, I really try to go full send. And that local, uh put all of my energy towards business towards work. Um, not even, you know, enjoying all the things other kids my age were doing at that point so that I could be, uh, giving it everything. I didn't want to be watered down whatsoever. I didn't want anything to get in the way of my goals. And where I was going at that point, anything that could be a potential risk. Why integrated in my

Brock Goldberg:   39:29
life, That's all. I want to be playing higher. That's so cool. I mean, most kids at 23 24 years old, they're not thinking like that, man. They're carrying about partying, caring about having fun. And obviously, you went through this transitional period in your life, and life is like a roller coaster, and maybe that's a big dip. But you obviously pulled out of that moment and you grabbed onto something. Was it, Um was it something inside of you that you look back there like I don't ever want that again. So I gotta work 10 times harder to get myself out of it. What was it that took you out of this transitional period? Ah, and that allowed you to move forward.

Jason Fishman:   40:06
Ah, like I said, it's just I wasn't gonna feel that way anymore now and, uh, you know, when you're 22 you're feeling good. You just left school. You know, your senior year, you're higher up, and people are looking to establish everything going to then being on the opposite side of society getting out. Um, so I mean that that was a big part of it for me. But again, once I got into, um, conversations, we're all seeing the business world. I realized there's much bigger games being played here for sure. You know, it's no longer about like, Hey, which party do I want to go to? You know, like who were inviting over anything like that and more along the lines of What am I doing in the world? What type of impact of my making? What type of networks in my building? What value am I providing for the networks around me? Look at all these, you know, Look at all these people who are making serious deals, you know, creating stuff that's just awesome. And, you know, being compensated for it beyond what any business will pay. I mean, they're making like serious money on different exits and different things going on. How do I do that? How do you know play in that type of game like that? That's what really opened up. So again, I didn't want to be that 22 year old figuring out life or, you know, people like telling me, like all you're young like I didn't want that. Um and you know, there's probably downsides and owed and enjoy, like those years enough for whatever it may be. But I'll tell you, and this quotes around being an entrepreneur of living a few years of your life, like most people won't so that you can live the rest of your life like most people can't. I love that and you know, different things like that that, you know, people I look up to now post on a daily basis, and those are the type of quotes I was reading then and started understanding like wow, you know, hear these successful people, um, and even athletes. I always people in history, and this is what they're doing. At 22 is what they're doing in 25 is what they're doing. A 27 and aligning myself, and you're not supposed to compare to others. But I used it as a motivator. Like, what do I need you to push to get there quicker and to get their, you know, uh, more sustainably at that, too, because you watch people fall apart. So it was really the drive more than anything I love. And I told you, I get bored, put the things I have in a healthy way, and, you know, like, uh, friends and everything like that, like, thank you for everything. I'm not bored of you, but I always want more. And that's usually pushing people more trips, getting new expansions to the business, new partners, new representation of the markets of the world and travel to those places. It's It's a healthy Dr um And again, I value the time I have here. Like you said, 20 years goes by quick. In 20 years, I'll be 53 you know, like the same distance it was from when you hang out in high school. Getting in trouble will be, you know,

Brock Goldberg:   42:58
had the same rules. 53 old fool. I'm joking. I'm when you're 50

Jason Fishman:   43:03
three, don't feel young and blah blah blah, but we'll

Brock Goldberg:   43:06
be little. But of course, of 50

Jason Fishman:   43:07
five menu. Yes, like that. Explain why we're close, but you get the idea like I don't want time to go by without knowing I'm playing everything to the fullest without knowing I'm embracing it all. You look at the regrets that people have when the older and a lot of it is that self thought and that stress and liking a stupid things that they should have been worrying about. I only want to be focused on what I'm creating, what more I could be doing when we will be putting out there. Uh, and you know, that list for the day that I was mentioning sometimes done is better than perfect. So just trying to get as much done as I can.

Brock Goldberg:   43:40
I love that whole hall. And you just said sometimes done is better than perfect or a lot about what you said against sometimes

Jason Fishman:   43:47
done is better than

Brock Goldberg:   43:48
perfect. You know, I need to understand that because I sometimes have this, like, perfectionist mentality, and I'm starting to evolve in tow. You know what, exactly what you just said, especially with this podcast. My whole life. I tried to put all the pieces together so fucking perfectly before I brought something to market right? When Sometimes it's just about fucking doing it right. It's not always about being 100 and 10% perfect, because you can learn along the way. Are we gonna go back? And we're getting close toe, Uh, where I get to really ask some questions about what the fuck is going on now? Right. So So you get out of college. Started that job. One was the point that you started teaming up with the people that you're surrounding yourself with now. Ah, was there like when you were younger? Was their appointment like Okay, I'm gonna own my own business. Ah, Was there many steps along the way? What happened after that first job? Out of high school or college?

Jason Fishman:   44:51
Yeah. So as I mentioned, I had success in the project I was working on and got moved to projects an additional verticals and ah, you know, I think I talked about entertainment, apparel, tech hardware, um, various types of, um, consumer packaged goods travel. I got a taste. Gotta respect. Ah, spectrum of industry. Spit together more portfolio moved on to a different agency, where I took on a new business roll business development essentially. But come up with ideas for prospective clients and roll those out. Um, one of the clients were working on was, ah, social gaming company Facebook Games like Farmville Mafia, yours, but around branded entertainment. So taking social pages with over a 1,000,000 followers and then monetizing them through the sale of virtual goods. So I learned in this business model inside and out, because I was a business marking nerd at that point. And ah, an average revenue per user would be about 50 cents per user per month because the only 5% of people make purchases, but they'd spend an average of 20 a month. So if you had 50 cents per user per month, you could project how much he'd make off a 1,000,000 users or, like the leader in the space of that time had 224 million users. And that's when I learned about traffic. That's when I learned about how to take people online to your site to your offering to your game two year investment page to your business lead form, and it was transformational for me in the sense of before I was working with these projects. Um, we're creating websites for creating videos, creating full marketing campaigns around on in some cases, that very little eyeballs Amazing, amazing technology, revolution in new products with no one seeing it. No awareness now, looking at traffic funnels and being able, Thio essentially create arbitrage with media buying. Uh, I could take millions of people tow any girl, and that to me was sheer power and was able to build these marketing plans that were set up to produce hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars, all through the use of digital marketing tactics. Um, and again, with media buying, it would mean by arbitrage you're buying traffic cheaper than you're selling it. You're bringing users to your offering, um, at a lower cost than what you're making on them, and that gives you the ability to scale. That's my favorite word. I love the scale. So this is when I was first introduced to it. Later on games were backed up in development. We would obtain seed capital of $3 million. I was part of that whole process that created over 75 versions of our investor pitch materials customized for each party were obtaining licenses. Had created hundreds of different decks for you. Name, um, the biggest entertainment licence license holders you could think of and meeting with their management team sometimes with the talent himself. Um, all that was paused. Uh, we're working out of a mansion in Santa Monica, and we were going to acquire in advertising sales firm. Instead, we did emerging with one business deal, if you will, for sure. And ah, the owner of that company was very successful at an exit in the late nineties in the nine figure level. And I had the opportunity of working directly with him, and it was opened up to me. And I am absolutely, I wanna learn everything he knows advertising is where the money is in terms of marketing. That's where the dollars are traded. Um, I want that. Let's do that. And it was tough. Um, the whole atmosphere of it was high pressure. You're talking nineties sales models to build something for digital packages, but at the same time, it shaped me into ah, business development person. I am now and basically spoke with pretty much Every top 100 brand was running campaigns for a strong amount of them and got a good feel for what worked and what didn't work across a full array of different industries. Budget levels, timelines. Uh, I could sit here. Name drop, you know, the automotive travel entertainment, both studio and theatrical, up of theatrical on home entertainment. Um, e commerce platforms, like, literally, just all package. It's everything. I tell you what they do internally. I was traveling around a lot meeting with the agencies and clients direct, and I got good at presenting, you know, I was on the sales side, was later asked to be a product marketing manager, so I could travel with the higher level sales guys and do the do the pitch, meaning like, Hey, we like the way you do the storytelling on this. We want you to talk about our ipad advertising inventory rise to, you know, the biggest the biggest beverage company there is. Sam, we need you to do that. The biggest mobile company there is and learn the whole game of ad tech even to the point to where, uh, I eventually was promoted and built the whole product marketing division had product marking special Sonny's needed the sales team underneath me at a certain point and would have to source additional advertising inventory, meaning we'd over cell one month and I'd have to find Maur impressions advertising placements over cell. Yeah, so then we fly up to San Francisco, meet with a couple of groups out there who said, This is no longer a problem for you. Like as much advertising. You know, India, I need we got you and started in on the throat of data and what's available in terms of targeting.

Brock Goldberg:   50:37
So just a big learning experience. I mean, for sure. And how old were you at this point?

Jason Fishman:   50:41
27 27 man. Little younger Leading into it, of course. But like 20 seven's when I got good, if you will

Brock Goldberg:   50:47
Yeah, it's inside. Cut you off because you're about to say something. But most people in the space at that time, where they roughly around your age, that had your level of expertise and do there's people

Jason Fishman:   50:59
on my team that, like we're like 20 years older than

Brock Goldberg:   51:01
that hated. That's gotta be crazy, man, because you're like an outlier and and and your type of in You're not your type in your industry. And that can be very hard for people that are 20 years your your senior, right? Yeah. Ah, going through that process. Especially with a guy that had a nineties, you know, advertising, marketing mentality, uh, mixed up with, you know, yours was that challenging? And are those challenges something that allowed you to grow or did it pull you back? What was that like?

Jason Fishman:   51:38
So I always knew, uh, that I would start a company, you know, be a founder CEO, if you will. Yeah. At this point in my life, I was building up my portfolio. Yeah. So, yeah, there was points where I was frustrated, but at the same time, I was actually put my head down and doing the work. And so glad I did so that I stuck with it. Even the situations that were more difficult shaped me into who I am now. And some of conversations that I I didn't like. I'm on the other part of now And can you appreciate respect from all angles? Um, and that could be internally with management talking thio sales teams that could be externally with agencies talking to their client or vendors I e ad networks talking to their agency because that's the whole trade table there. Um, it taught me the full game, so, you know, built Ah, we're building a mobile advertising network were monetizing that everything was going good. Yeah, there's things I would have done differently. But at the same time, I was getting, you know, invaluable experience. Both from, you know, the deals were putting together and running as well as from upper management. As I told you, I was getting everything from there. Um, but onward was asked to partner and form DNA. Okay, which is my company now. So, uh, December of 2013 Everything completed on that in the ad tech side of things, January of 2014. I remember was right after Wolf of Wall Street came out what, like once a week at that point. But I I the partnered with, uh, one of the owners of a past agency was at and formed DNA and, uh, basically do the same thing. But for start up to mid level companies, large organizations as well. But you know, gently around some type of launch some type of product rollout, and for me, that's a lot more exciting. It's a lot more rewarding. Absolutely. Run a top campaign for Verizon. They say, Hey, great job. We're gonna consider you for the next R P. The next request for a proposal, huh? And you just want out of 100 line items on their vendor list, which is cool for sure. It could become historical vendor and your budgets congrats. Oh, and then there's all types of responsibility that comes with that. Of course, I e a lot more phone calls and fire drills and things like that, but you're not making as much of a difference. You can. And they're definitely creatives that do so, uh, outside of just the media buying performance side of things. Um, but working with the startup, I mean, you were directly part of their growth. It's extremely exciting. Um, you know, talk about the failure rate in a second here. Ah, but ah, it's what gets me up in the day. And when we're letting ourselves with projects and emerging verticals that are really making an impact in the world or just doing something super cool in my eyes it. Ah, it's good. Smile on my

Brock Goldberg:   54:43
face, for sure. So what does DNA stand for? Digital Nishi Agency. Digital Niche agent. It's cool.

Jason Fishman:   54:49
Acronym. I like referring to it as D N A. We are variations of it underneath. Yeah, we incorporated in January 2014. My partner is a career consultant from at this point. Been doing it for 20 years. He was actually pro skater when he was younger. So we're able to vibe on the whole action sports thing on and had some experience collaborate on accounts in that vertical. But, uh, was actually working and senior living at the moment. And he was consulting business is that he was sending digital agency work out to that were failing. So, uh, you know, saw everything I was doing in terms of digital traffic on the media buying side and said, Let's let's do this. We have some business right out of the, um, and the 1st 6 months to tell you the truth, we're actually tough. Did okay, they would pay the bills. Um, a lot of thought of sleepless nights in terms of how much I was working, putting the other materials, creating products get everything going Building referral partnerships. Uh, going after perspective clients essentially cold, calling cold e mailing, doing everything I could to get revenue to a good point and in so we incorporate. In general, By that summer, everything started to work. That's awesome. And the second half of the year went well, and by December was surpassing. What I wanted to make at the business before and everything was, was rolling. Um, you know, and there's probably a lot of stories I could tell within that, but just shape. Yeah, yeah, the whole business. January Quarter one is the slowest time of year for marketing. Uh oh. It slowed the hell down and from there was anticipating it to pick back up around march. April. We started pitted. We would put on like, a big footwear brand, but they paused and, like we're waiting to launch everything was real slow. And it didn't pick back up. By May, my partner and some people involved were looking at me like, Hey, when we gonna pull the plug, when we gonna do other things when I bring it up, move other focuses. You know, recruiters recalling me had other opportunities, but I didn't want to give up. More importantly, there's too much momentum, Like the conversations and meetings cause was having on a daily basis. It just It would have felt like a like a shame. And, you know, I had some other things that didn't work. I had, like, off road app that wasn't able to bring the life And, you know, other things. Like things were like, man, if I would just kept doing this, would've worked out like it would have, like, really compound it at some point and just stayed with it. You know, I took a few interviews to see what was out there and again was just stuck on the fact like this is gonna happen. Um, I'm close and July of that year, it all turned around and, you know, knock on wood hasn't slowed down since, and that was 2015. So we're here in 2020 and it just kept growing, kept growing. You know, we go through our peak months, but even, you know, this year saw larger January than we have. Ah, you know, to date, including your of your first percentage projections. So, you know, when I talk about start ups. When I talk to entrepreneurs, I say, like, don't do this unless you're ready to continue when everything else around you seems like you should stop. You know, when I look at the groups that we work with that make it and the groups that don't the one differentiating factor that I see I articulate as grip okay, meaning that feeling of no matter what, this guy, this girl, they're gonna do whatever it takes to hit the milestones. You know, we invest in the company's. I participate individually, like I look for this in people's eyes. I look for this in scenarios, and I'm speaking with them. I need to know that there's not a chance that they're stopping what they're doing, because everything's working against those first few years as a started.

Brock Goldberg:   58:56
And that is frickin mind blowing because most people will give up, most people will stop. So let's talk about that guy. That failure rate in your line of work has to be insane. 90% of startups

Jason Fishman:   59:15
fail in the 1st 12 months. Those that survive 90% of those fail in the 2nd 12 months. I'm in a world where people are shutting their doors constantly around me among phone calls with these people in their offices of packing their boxes and trying to figure out how I'm gonna support your kids like I see it. But, you know, going back to my thirst and Dr How is exciting things, you know, touched on snowboarding and the type of ah, danger that has to be present for you to be enjoying yourself there. Yeah, and how that's actually meditation for me and takes me away from the stress the risk involved in any of these campaigns and allows me to be 100% of the moment and come back refreshed on Monday. It's because this is what is happening around me. Meaning we've worked with over 300 brands to date almost at 3 50 That's not all them around today. Now some of them moved on other ventures. Some of those ventures are more successful than the first. It's all part of their journey. But meanwhile, marketing, as I mentioned, is, ah, extension of sales. We're in the front level of performance or directly attached to their revenue. If what we're doing is working where the hero we tell the client there. The here, of course. And don't take any credit for it, but meaning the marketing campaign is this awesome driving force in the business that everyone's celebrating when we're not hitting the performance benchmarks that we're out to create companies going there, you know, entrepreneurial marketing. One budget oftentimes has to produce the next. If it is not hitting its results, there is no more to be spent in your hoping things just get picked up. So, you know, I have that type of ah perspective, that type of lens on marketing. You know, it's not the traditional. Hey, we're gonna spend 500 k on branding and think about it for six months. Type of marketing activation. It's got to be smart. You gotta be lean. And whatever you do has to put numbers on the board. If you're afraid of measuring things like don't be doing marketing for startups like it, it's all a matter of metric.

Brock Goldberg:   1:1:27
That is incredible, man, because what I've seen as you're telling your story is that the the times in your life with, you know, snowboarding, skateboarding, the thrill, the kind of living on edge, right? You don't know what's gonna happen right on. You have now transferred that into your your your your life, your everyday job. Although you're not a professional snowboarder, you might be a professional badass. But like, straight up, that is incredible to see because that feeling has now said Wade, into who you still are today is an individual 100%. What is? There's gotta be some way on your shoulders, though, because, uh, you know, people are instilling, you know, their trust and everything into you. And if the next thing doesn't work right for them, is that what pushes you like understanding? Like we have to give it our all?

Jason Fishman:   1:2:20
Yes. It allows me to know I'm working on something meaningful where if that isn't present, like I said, you know, running big campaigns, multi $1,000,000 budgets, but not being connected to it, even though there's commissions and things like that involved because doesn't you know, have that type of relevancy doesn't actually like mean anything to too many people involved? Uh, it's nine day difference, so yeah, the the loss side of things is drastic failure. Again. It's everywhere. But when it's all working, when it's all connecting and happy to say not only the percentage is much higher working with an agency but percentages you know that we've seen on our campaigns in our portfolio are significantly higher. Um, and you know, to tell you more about what we do have a

Brock Goldberg:   1:3:09
big part of

Jason Fishman:   1:3:09
it is media buying. Well, okay, I'll go Fuller into a well laid out. So we start with marketing strategy I've built the system, called the eight Point Marketing Plan, have been published by four personal types of media outlets about it to tell you all types of cool quotes of, you know, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail, but it's where it all starts. So you know, the first section's air research heavy both as an inch industry as well as the actual competitors. So I could tell exactly how they're obtaining digital market share exactly where they're spending exact messaging. They're using all the channels. I need to know what they're doing that's producing their results so I could stand on their shoulders when creating our clients models, the framework that occurs, and so the target audiences. I personify that I'm making fictional characters. They're digital touchpoints, which become all the marketing channels where we're looking t use both paid advertising and organic, which is content marketing, uh, and then moving on to the messaging that's gonna live on each channel. I put together a strategic Martin partner, map and messaging that's gonna go out to them. That's how I have seen things grow. The quickest is through strategic partnerships and tapping into existing warm audiences. And then everything leads into projections. Okay, the only way to measure anything is with numbers and whose eyes away from it. There's a reason you should pay attention to me. Oh, but we break down each channel by an algorithm from impressions, two clicks to conversions. So how much something's gonna be seen, how much it's gonna be engaged with and traffic is gonna be produced and then conversions so again, whether it's purchased, whether it's an install of a software grab, whether it's a business to business lead, whether it's an investor, we do a lot of fundraising, but I'll talk about. But, uh, we can then identify where in the algorithm were underperforming. If something's not working, it's not just a matter of hey, Instagram ads didn't work, but we could actually see where we're under producing, optimize, um And then, you know, most importantly scale. But we can have the full goal set up algorithmic Lee on how it's going to be produced with the strategy, and that is our starting point. That's how we online with clients. I'm actually be doing some workshops. Our clients this year, right? I travel internationally with them and we spend a week creating this strategy and then, you know, riding motorcycles to the jungles of Vietnam. And then they come back and brainstorm on it more so. I love that. I love that. Yeah, yeah, we're looking at, like submarines for another one. Like, there's all types of cool ways because we wanted to be that type of experience in creating what their brand is gonna be doing it, how how it's brand is gonna be living. It's best life, you

Brock Goldberg:   1:5:42
know. I love that man. I freaking love that. And it's like, once again, you're incorporating the times in your life when you're younger into who you are today, right submarines riding motorcycles, creating experience creating experience for you know, the foreigners that would come to mammoth, take him around and show them. It's just been it's been who you are as an individual, and to be able to portray that into dia is just freaking fantastic. Where do these ideas come from? Like when you sit and think? If you could think right now, like where do they come from? Top your head? Planning?

Jason Fishman:   1:6:20
I am boredom that we go and I'II I could feel boredom at things that other people would get excited by. That's the nature of it. But as soon as I get that moment, it's like, OK, what do we do to take this to the next level? How do we do Maur? And doing it on behalf of clients is producing real value. It's not just like throwing around the word board. It's saying like, Hey, these results are good but they want to grow. They don't wanna make the same money next year. How do we scale what it is that they're doing? That's ultimately what we're out T produce for clients is so I can put in front of them opportunities to scale their business and, you know, to get more into what we do. There's three core offerings outside of strategy and these air recommendations. These are things that we, as an agency can offer or they could do in house. But these are things that again fit into that hole. Smart, entrepreneurial marketing mindset and their content, marketing, advertising and direct outreach. This is our brands are built. This is how they're able to really make an impact that hazel or disrupt but obtained digital market share. And they're given industries and content marketing. You build a funnel, we build a content calendar, talking about what's going to distributed where we're talking about, you know, email system email sequence of e mails called female drip. Those email addresses provided in a landing page, which is a page designed to do one thing. You're not taking them to the full website. You're taking them to a page to get him, submit their email address or sign up for something, or join a community somewhere from there. In the emails, they're being showcased with social content articles, videos, white papers, you know, influence or posts where people are talking about the brand and showing social proof and third party validation. It takes seven touchpoints arm or to see a conversion on average, so this creates the user journey that we're taking him through and providing that type of value throughout the entire process. We then drive traffic into that funnel with advertising our second offering. You know, my backgrounds and ad tech, uh, have relationships that I've carried on to this day there. We've developed a lot of her own first party data, uh, which is King and allows us to outperform other agencies and other verticals just because of our application of it. But we run ads on social platforms. We run ads and search platforms. I buy ads on exchanges record, get it at a wholesale rate and use machine learning technology to optimize across billions of impressions a day. And those as it feel like they're following around everywhere. Like that's, you know, the algorithm I create. And it can be very effective at finding a pocket of performance within a large net of advertising and by ads just from that audience moving forward. We're measuring how much we're paying for the ads, the impressions again, how much we're paying for clicks and traffic in the engagement getting from there. How much therefore were seeing in terms of conversions and then the cost per acquisition. So if that's a sale, if that's an investor, you know, again going through all the different conversions that we track. If there's a transactional value, we can measure the return on ads men. So we're getting, you know, $10 cost per acquisition. Meanwhile, the average order values $100 to 10 X return on ad spend. If the client spending 15 K, they're going 150 k back. I can show them we could scale this to X next month, all next week. We could do it again 3 to 7 days later and again and again and again. And we'll get start ups that begin with us at entry level media budgets and spending 1/4 $1,000,000 a month or more shortly thereafter because of the results that they're saying. And you know it's not the most lucrative for marketing agency to sell media buys because of the margins, and definitely is that higher budgets. But ah, you know there's other products we could push them to where we make mawr in the early stages, but I'm not interested in that. What I want to see is them getting results and the continuation on again Using the word scale again is where we're able to grow as an agency. And, you know, we'll run 4 to 10 audiences to begin. And then 2 to 6 different ads to six creatives will optimize towards which ones are working best. And use all of these findings to again hit levels of performance that are outstanding in comparison industry averages. And that's why we've been able to grow.

Brock Goldberg:   1:10:47
That's you know, that's Ah, it's really fantastic because what you said that stood out most is you know, you could have taken the approach where you're going to make more money, right? As a business, right. But to be able to say no, fuck that right. I want to scale this one but also give real value to my customer because at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. And if people are instilling their trust, their money and everything into you for you to just, you know, flip it for a quick dime compared to building long lasting relationships. Yes, that's where it's at. And so that is definitely what would separate you from a lot of other people. That's what would separate DNA from a lot of other companies. Um is because you guys care. Yeah. I mean, I see you as you are telling me these things. Not only is your face lighting up, but you're looking at the camera, speaking to the audience, sharing with them your passion, right? Sure, it's incredible.

Jason Fishman:   1:11:46
Yeah, It's like I said that that world of startup failure is around me. I've done extensive workshops that I've held with various different accelerators and business educational groups. Here in Los Angeles. I've seen thousands of companies that aren't around anymore. I need to do whatever I can to be able to hit those performance benchmarks was revenue levels that started to obtain the next level financing the next full funding. Ah, so that a cult may grow. I mentioned outreach being our final offering. We do that unlinked in and get a substantially strong response rate that we would using cold emails called phone calls. Any other cold methods, you could see exactly who you're looking for. It's underrated. We're getting investors high level business to business buyers and strategic partners. Through it all, on top of PR and other types of media connections. Through these methods, we've been able to outperform and you know there's a whole list. There's about eight verticals that we have shown case studies that again have been pointed out in these industries, pointed out by the consultants in the groups have spoken at conferences at all these industries. Um, one thing that actually point out further to which we do, which is exciting. It's fun, and it's leading the way to The next stage is of my career, And DNA's growth is investor acquisition. So in 2014 were asked to work on an equity crowdfunding campaign. What is Equity Crowdfunding? It is the sale of stocks in a startup in It's a private equity investment, and there's an online offering page that's regulated by the SEC and Finn Ra. It's all compliant has to go through audits, and, uh, you know, from there, retail investors can have opportunities to participate in deals that they would never hear about Ah, historically, others. Law has been in place in the 19 thirties that prevented scams, but at the same time kept private equity deals to accredited investors. Individuals with over 200 K individual income over the past three years or a $1,000,000 net worth outside of their primary home. And you know, it's Ah boy's Club, you know? Hey, these air, these offerings, Let's talk about it at the Country Club this Sunday, which is cool. Um, and that still exists on, you know, Comptel, all different types of funds that you should speak with if you're in those circles and you know something that we support, but the same time we can now bring thousands of investors to participate in a single deal, holding the same spot on a single cap table. So it still gives the company control. But but, you know in it, we've been able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars for startups, a cz Dina where, you know, first was a credit investors. I leveraged my data partnerships to reach high household income, high net worth audiences, high risk, high return investors, private equity investors and, uh, again we hit levels that were not seen before in terms of acquisition costs and some largest campaigns to date. Back in 2014 the law's opened up further and 2016 to unaccredited investors title through the Jobs Act passed and we started doing regs CF campaigns. Um, we had success in those were asked to participate in reggae, which you could raise up to 50 million from unaccredited audiences have some of the top campaigns there and have built relationships with the top portals, which are websites that host he's offering us. Ah, and couldn't start Engine republic seat invest we funder, micro ventures. And we get pointed at, as you know, recommended agency. We get referred to, as, you know, one of the top agencies in the play in the space. I've personally invested into first party data. Uh, we're we're capturing, uh, investor audiences that are participating in these deals on, and I'm able to target them with ads and drive them to our clients deals so that, you know, we could pay Ah, 5% of what the investment is and be continued to acquire those investors up and up and up again. Give the clients opportunities to scale. I can say hey paying, you know, $100 per investor. You're getting $2000 an average investment. Um, you know, 20 x return on ads back. We had one in December. There's a 31 X return on ad spin. So they're asking of me at that point. Hate. How much of this can I buy? How much can I spend? How quickly can we hit the hard cap of our rays? And that's what we're out to create. That's when I congratulate my team and say, Hey, you're doing a good job. Anything less than that, though we're just continuing push because because that's what's required. And, you know, the failure rate and equity crowdfunding is huge. We got involved in crypto currency, I CEOs, right. Well, let's change

Brock Goldberg:   1:16:31
not a bad word. And I think it's true. It's true. It's

Jason Fishman:   1:16:37
absolutely, and we're doing stuff in a 2017 2018 that was unprecedented, unprecedented in in terms of what could be raised, how quick I was seeing $50 million being produced in a day. Incredible. In some cases, rounds like that would close in a matter of minutes. It was insane and could tell you investors who had had done very well there better still doing very well. Others that are not, um, could tell you about raises that we, uh, played a role in and completely we're still working on campaigns that run on these portals that bonus tokens on top of their security's. So it's looked at as a security token offering, which is a new form of initial coin offering, which operated a bit outside of legislation back then. So security token offering. So the way to do it s Dios? Yeah, exactly. And, ah, you know, Blockchain crypto currency, a crazy emerging vertical. You look at the market cap and how many hundreds of billions of floating out at any given time? It opened up all types of industries. And, you know, we started working on the marketing. Ah, for these currencies. Four different wallets both tech, um, and hardware and doing user acquisition. They're bringing on new customers for those brands I've traveled around, I think I've spoken at countries in eight and eight ah, countries, uh, you know, specifically on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency investments, marketing learnings and opportunities Communities

Brock Goldberg:   1:18:07
the whole nine man, where do you see that all going with with the crypto on the block trains base So

Jason Fishman:   1:18:12
digital assets fintech. I classified crypto currency in there. Ah Blockchain the underlying technology behind it, you know thing with Blockchain these days is you look at Rule one, which is 22 operate a Blockchain technology in a functioning company. The best way to present it the best way to get it processed. The best way to get rolled out is don't tell him it's Blockchain. You want people using its block using Blockchain without knowing that using Blockchain. You want people using Cryptocurrency without knowing these footprints because of the negative connotations that have come along with it. Now there will be a SEC rulings on WREG A raises, and once a token ized reggae format is approved that could be replicated easily. There's been one that's been pushed through, but once it can be consistent, it will be a standard vehicle for fundraising. But the SEC is taking a few years on it. It will happen at one point. Crypto currency is basically going up and down based on the fluctuating price of Bitcoin. Yes, um, the moment on a podcast or timeless so it doesn't really matter, is

Brock Goldberg:   1:19:24
it really over? It went over. And then now it's like 97 still

Jason Fishman:   1:19:28
trading over in South Korea. Yeah, so, uh, you know, there's all different types of strategies for trading around Bitcoin as well. Thio Just talking the marketing component of it. But, uh, as Bitcoin rises, more money spent in the industry more investors complete their transactions into startups. Um, Maur groups trade in general, it value of everything goes up and the business is a whole picks up pressure within Blockchain. So there's the Bitcoin having that later this year. Historically, it shows, Ah, a lift absolutes Based on market perception, it's set up to do so. I think everything's gonna go for a ride this year. I shouldn't say it publicly that you get what I'm saying.

Brock Goldberg:   1:20:14
I know I totally get what you're saying

Jason Fishman:   1:20:16
and, uh, and beyond that, all coins are all gonna grow up. That same point, we're building marketing strategies for various currencies that are lining of some of those timelines and dates were bringing various types of investors for private cells. As we speak, public sales will roll out later this year in a more secure form of ice. EOS Yes, Theo format. So it's all going to spike. People are getting warm, confident around the technology itself and understanding they invested in the bubble. You know, if you invested in December 2017 and lost money like there's a reason logically, if you look at the way everything's grown consistently since launch in 2008. 2009. Halloween, of course. So you know beyond all that, um, it's gonna grow. It's their course. We haven't hit a traditional market dip, one that occurs. Gold goes up when we've seen headlines like that in the news. Cryptocurrency has gone up so again are positioning in. Fintech is strategic. We have partners globally. Uh, I've done extensive travel in Europe, in Asia around key, um, hot spots for this. And I could tell you there's a lot of people on the sidelines in terms of everything from investments on the individual group level, all the way to enterprise organizations that are waiting to roll out their currency waiting, roll up their technology. Friends. People advise governments on this, and not just the ones that are speaking publicly. Everyone has something going in the background. It's happening.

Brock Goldberg:   1:21:49
It's happening. It's having, I mean in the future. America have a digital current salmon dinner. Currencies are by far the future. Ah, some will succeed. Most will fail. That being said at the end of the day. The emerging technology throughout all of this is very fascinating for you guys. To be at the forefront of marketing is so exciting, because when I got in 2016 and then we start talking in 2017. It was just Ah, yeah, just just just insane. So to kind of bring it back to your t o D n A. What is the next five years, like for you guys? Where do you see yourself going? Sure,

Jason Fishman:   1:22:25
uh, $100 million in revenue per year Organization. Which puts you as a key player for acquisition from a top four holding company.

Brock Goldberg:   1:22:33
Wow, you've definitely thought about that. Which makes sense. I love Yeah.

Jason Fishman:   1:22:38
I mean, look, we created DNA not just for any type of liquidity events such as an exit, but really as a vehicle to launch brands. So I'm beginning to partner with companies and emergent emerging verticals, both in terms of marketing service is and Fiat Investments, you know, putting cash in cos um and again, having all of the resource is put in place, tow launch brands efficiently and to hit their goals successfully. V a d n a. And so you know to be ableto play that role in startups, but to be able to have exits outside of service based, uh, multipliers, which you would see on an agency purchase and be able to, um, you know, play a role in these other types of groups, have exits, then take those funds reinvest as an angel investor, build a fund direction and funds approach us Thio build something that we can, uh, you know, inject capital into campaigns that are working. Um, that type of role in the entrepreneurship community is gonna be d n A. So you know, the way we're growing as a team. Ah, the way we're growing or educational programs, the way we're going, our portfolio and the fundraising space, as well as producing revenue for groups in e commerce. And, you know, B to B type verticals business to business type verticals. That's all. Just gonna keep growing, you know, moving from 15 to 30 clients to 32 50 and onwards, you know, from their based on client needs. Ah, I definitely like operating the smart way. There's outdated agency models out there that have been working since traditional media required, you know, 100 people to purchase from hundreds of different media outlets nationwide. Self serve platforms eliminate a lot of that. Ah, but for me, it all comes from successful campaigns. So it all comes from providing opportunities to clients to scale, which is only based on performance. And, you know, a lot of thought. Leadership is well, I speak a high volume of conferences. Um, I'm in the process of launching my podcast. Writing a book is well to that package is a lot of these thoughts and, like, you know, my whole philosophy towards market, which I applied to these campaigns. I summarized in three words Test optimize scale, test optimize scale to stop to my scale, test optimized scale. It's what we implement impound into our teams head to, you know, structure. All of our campaigns convey the clients as much as possible. I mentioned, you know, starting with various audiences and different creatives. We look at different marketing channels, audiences, creatives, any any of these aspects of the algorithm. As tests, they don't work in every scenario. Uh, assumptions don't compare to analytics the sheer numbers, the measurements we have to base everything off of. So if I'm testing and then optimizing towards what's working, trying to optimize what's not working to aim or you display a ballpoint. Okay? And then again providing clients opportunities to scale from there, operating the safer fashion and one that can be doubled down on repeatedly once its working Something's not scalable. If someone writes a great article on us, I gotta wait a few months later for some other type of activation. Great. It's a vanity metric. Yeah, you know, print it out and look bad in front of a mirror for an hour, but also, like, cool. That's great. I need to know something that the client can scale so their performance can continue to grow again. That's what creates everything over the next five years

Brock Goldberg:   1:26:10
for us. I love that man. I love that. Okay, so you said a couple things that you said you're gonna start a podcast. So tell us real quick with podcasts gonna be about what it's called Test optimize scale, mating down

Jason Fishman:   1:26:20
with entrepreneurs. Um, various types of service providers as well to work with entrepreneurs and talk about their win and what they tested. You know, most things don't work on the first try what they optimized and ultimately, what they're able to scale to build their positioning within the industry.

Brock Goldberg:   1:26:40
I'm off that man. Yeah, I love that. And when you when you plan launching

Jason Fishman:   1:26:44
of the 1st 5 episodes recorded, it should be short here and want to put a firm date.

Brock Goldberg:   1:26:48
That's fine. That's fine in the ethos, not I get it. Next few months,

Jason Fishman:   1:26:55
it'll be. Should be much sooner than that. Different working titles for the book. I don't have a firm name on that quite yet. I was actually going with the name the the Book on marketing that way. You know, when I got introduced to a t me up,

Brock Goldberg:   1:27:07
I wrote the book on Market, Dude. Yeah, and cause you

Jason Fishman:   1:27:12
know you need a cool intro and you're on stage and really just starting on them the podcast, a lot friends that are speakers and doing awesome things in the world. And you know the best at what they dio. So, uh, you know, it's it's it's fun creating, um, and again the lack of education like it. It's definitely out there. Ah, but being able to share these experiences of groups that have failed and others that you know how to pivot or did something optimize and really get to a point that they pushed through and we're able to scale because of that is the value is the message that I want to have packaged for students, for sure, entrepreneurs, individuals who were very successful with their, you know, job. And now starting a new company people within organizations and their launching ah, marketing campaign, whatever it may be. But it has to be that presence of this may not work. Here's what we're gonna optimize if it's not and we're going to get to a point where its scales this we're gonna do to, ah, you know, deliver that

Brock Goldberg:   1:28:16
for sure. I think that so many people in the in this world definitely can listen to that and take a lot from it because with the type of people that you're gonna be bringing on, um is a CZ long as they're speaking from the truth, which they will be, um, you take from that because you never see all the steps that it that it took for an individual to get to the point where they're at today, right here and and the failure rate for anything in life is super high, right? And especially like in your industry and and the hair industry, it's it's breaking, it's it's unprecedented. But at the end of the day, it is the people that did continue to push forward, absolutely optimizing and eventually scaled whatever they're doing in their life. I'm really excited to listen to it. I definitely will listen to the 1st 5 within the first day on. And then then the Bookman II frickin love when close friends of mine people that I grew up with and just even people in general that I know I put their whole heart into something. Sure. And they've been able to see it from start middle. And then wherever the end, take some, you know, who knows? At the end of the day, man, looking back at your life, right? There was a moment in time that we talked about earlier, that you had this kind of transitional moment, and I don't I don't think I touched on it because, um, we all go through shit in life. Stuff happens. But for you, that was a moment in your life, especially talking to you now for the past couple hours. It was a moment in your life that everything changed. If you don't mind me asking, what was that moment?

Jason Fishman:   1:30:05
Well, I don't really talk about too much, but basically, you know, when I was 22 going to transition, trying to figure out my career was doing next and still focused on me and fund versus what I'm putting out in the world, Um, lost friend passed away at my house and, ah, it was the most traumatic incident. My life. It it basically, um, made me realize how real everything was, you know, and seeing all the details, you hear someone say something like this, Okay? But when you know, every detail is presented Ah, it did, uh, has more of an impact. It changes its Ah, it was instrumental. My growth, because the days to follow the months to follow were recurring thoughts about how precious life is, how it could disappear at any given moment. You know, just a normal day turns these type of things into something different. And, uh, you know, that's again been the driving forces I mentioned. Uh, I never wanna go back to Rose that I am changed everything about my life to be career oriented because again, it's focused on what I'm putting out in the world and, you know, to bring it all back ground business. Um, you know, I was told business is the monetization of value. That's all it is is just the clarity, the monetization of value. So again focused on what value I'm putting out in the world, not Ah, you know, uh, as much internal I find more comes back to you when that is the case. So you know, you need to set yourself up to monetize everything properly. The right systems, our business model, but all focused on what you're putting out in the world, you know, could look at it even deeper. Like what? Legacy? You're leaving because again, you don't know when you're gone like that. Uh, it could be any day now, so Ah, you know, I go on these international trips Not as worried about sleep, you know, focused on what we're creating in terms of partnerships of their groups in these markets, you know, focused on how our campaigns are performing. What needs to be changed in middle of night middle of holiday, whatever. Whatever it may be, you know, it's ah, it's a two millimetre difference from the best and people who are great. We're good people who are OK and OK doesn't do anything in this world. So, you know, pushing that extra two miles per hour that extra, you know, two degrees is really what it takes. So I seek that out, you know, I try toe put in, you know, Rep 15 on a 13 rip on a 10 reps set. You know, like you really, I need to push everything further. Um, because it's precious and what's going on, It's it's done. And, you know, uh, reminders that a few times a year not Maur, you know, heard of other friends and everything that have passed away and of all different ages. So, you know, gotta make the most of it. Um, you d'oh! You know, it's ah, something you look back and say it could have been you, um and ah, I'm still pushing, you know? So you say, Wow, it's great we're creating for me. It's that Yeah, it's cool. But I'm meeting these like V C's and, like investment bankers who are managing billions of dollars and showing significant returns for their clients. And you, How do I get there, like, what do I need to do to build a portfolio of like that from my book of business? How can I come to the table with more of a value, add to the next startup who has a hoverboard exactly, or, you know, back something to cure cancer? And I get these pitches, by the way, not the hoverboard your hands here. You know, I get all of these different projects that it's like, Wow, I want to do whatever I can to get this, uh, in awareness of millions or even billions of people, like How do I do that? And that's what I look at is my role. That's what I look at his mind positioning in the world and be doing business in L. A. For the next 20 years. 30 years, like how do I build relationships of that? You know, we continue to throw the right value towards each other. The right introductions aren't resource is how doe I, you know, have that, like every day, I never look at any one individual deal. It's always this relationship on building and, you know, forming. That's where it's Ah, that's where my head is. Um, you know, I like people were thinking the same way and having conversations with me about this on multiple continents. Yes, that's how I could tell. Like I really like somebody these days again. That's where my mind is going. And I know I'm just scratching the surface of a whole nother world past that. It's ah, it's endless game.

Brock Goldberg:   1:34:33
It iss it is, man. You know, Jason, as we wrap this up, I really like to look at your life and everything that we just talked about from you being a young kid in Santa Clarita. Uh, you know, starting out with baseball, then get into, like, skateboarding and then snowboarding and trying to figure out life and then going away to Mammoth and, you know, taking the foreigners around and just having the time of your life. And then, you know, things happen, and then you just kind of build up on it and and and now you're at this point in your life where, um, you're doing it your way. You're living life on your in terms, but you don't ever look at it. Um, at you Don't ever look at it as if you know, you don't look as if this is it. You always were looking at What's next? The next step and how you can bring value to other people's life. Yes. And that is so important. Man. You're not a me, me, me, me type of person. You have this heart of gold, and you have this just driving force that is gonna live on in you for as long as I will ever know you. But you do realize that time is finite and that it matters where so many people don't look. Att that. Because at any moment, it could be taken away from you. Absolutely. The last question I want to ask you is What is your legacy? What do you want? Your legacy, to be sure.

Jason Fishman:   1:36:06
I mean, it's not something I have to find out or giving a lot of thought. Um, you know, for me, it's around everything I said as an inspiration towards others. So your legacy is most left with your friends, your family, you know, as I'm building Ah, larger audience for the d n. A brand or even, you know, thought leadership around marketing. It could extend their. But right now it's my friends and family. So, you know, I I'm told I make things exciting. You know, that whole transfer of energy is president or friendships. I'm told I have a way of enrolling people and things they wouldn't normally do. So I tryto, you know, position that toward apply it towards the right areas. And I I endorse that. Meaning I want to get people excited. I want to be known as that. Jason, you shouldn't be excited about traveling somewhere. That was just completely unreasonable. You know, snowboarding going out to the nicest prime steak house on a Tuesday when I don't even want to leave like my living room. You know, calling the biggest consultants in a given industry and building a strategic partnership where they continued sending business at us like I don't wanna do that only made me do it. You got me excited to do that because you know, life's short. Why not play at the highest levels? Be the best like and get excited about that. No one likes frowning all the time. No. And if they Dio. I don't like him. I love that. Like I want people smiling around me. I want I'm excited. I want to be pushing them past the comfort level, but in a way that's productive towards their growth. Whether that's, you know, in a personal area of their life in exciting area, you know of, ah, there there adventures or in a professional context, I think the trick is to have it all combined. They say the most successful people you can't tell Well, they're working or playing. They're just always going after their vision of perfection and that that's that's what I play for That's you know what I'm doing when I'm in different parts of the world and, you know, put together deals. But meanwhile at like, I don't know, a rooftop on Hong Kong, you know, eight. Hong Kong eating wagyu and like, hanging out with some pretty high level like fun folks. So, uh, you know, actually strive towards, you know, progress, not perfection. Not not quite where I wanna be at, but at the same time, it z it's pretty rad.

Brock Goldberg:   1:38:37
You're on that journey, man. You're on that road. It's so cool to see And I'm so proud of you, man. I am so fucking proud of you. I'm so excited for everything that you've done. And I really appreciate you coming on here and sharing your story opening up because it listen to it, uh, that maybe you're struggling. Maybe you're just starting out. What? Whatever it is, and they're gonna find real inspiration in you. Okay, I really do believe that. Where can people find out more information about DNA? Jason Fishman. Yeah. Five

Jason Fishman:   1:39:07
mil linked. And that's where I'm the most accessible rooms. Instagram Stuff like that's cool, but linked in. And I'm checking Jason Fishman. You see my name in all this stuff? D n a fine digital nishi agency dot com. Um,

Brock Goldberg:   1:39:20
approach will ask me questions. Let's connect. Let's collaborate. All right, all right, all right. Thank you so much, ma'am. Have a good night. People next. Listening back to your stories, Theo